tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post3292714251006181128..comments2023-10-07T22:37:49.244+13:00Comments on The Hand Mirror: Kiwiblog readers solve gender pay gap. Hurrah!katyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-4347269550655068622010-03-13T21:48:06.969+13:002010-03-13T21:48:06.969+13:00James is an old troll AnneE, he pops up from time ...James is an old troll AnneE, he pops up from time to time for no apparent reason, gets rebutted, then disappears again. Doesn't seem to learn but.<br /><br />I've been thinking quite a bit about this whole attitude that apparently employers see every female applicant as a walking womb just waiting to be filled. Are there any people out there who have a role in hiring who can confirm or deny if that's on their mind in that decision-making process?Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-56948553794351759962010-03-10T21:59:09.395+13:002010-03-10T21:59:09.395+13:00um, james, you know it's just as possible and ...um, james, you know it's just as possible and becoming increasingly likely that men will also take their share of parental leave if their partner has a baby, right? it would be really nice if it was equally likely, and that's one of the points about the gender pay gap, but just as a simple matter of basic intelligence, you should be considering that possibility for all candidates. and just for the record, the lawyer next door to us had a baby at 60, so yeah, age doesn't come into the equation really. all men may fall into this category.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-45901970838537458142010-03-10T19:50:00.339+13:002010-03-10T19:50:00.339+13:00Its called the right to liberty
Only by Ayn Rand ...<i>Its called the right to liberty</i><br /><br />Only by Ayn Rand enthusiasts. For most people, it's called libertarian bullshit.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-85457702907936801282010-03-10T16:37:06.047+13:002010-03-10T16:37:06.047+13:00When an employer thinks about hiring someone its n...When an employer thinks about hiring someone its natural that he's going to consider the possibility that a female of child bearing years could become a liability what with paid maturnity leave and the prospect of never returning to work afterwards while her job was held open.<br /><br />Add the fact that hes not allowed to ask the simple and just question "Are you planning to have children in the next few years" and its no suprise that a male applicant would seem the safer option and consequently have more chance of earning and advancing over time.<br /><br />Maybe if the empployer was allow ed to ask that question (as he morally should be able to)women would find themselves in a better situation...?Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-22723520196262938752010-03-10T16:13:32.745+13:002010-03-10T16:13:32.745+13:00If private companies decide to pay different rates...If private companies decide to pay different rates based on gender then thats their right.It may be silly,shortsighted and offensive to others but its their property/business and they have every right to do so.<br /><br />Don't like it...? Work elsewhere,don't buy their product,peacefully protest but don't get the States in to whield the big violent stick of regulation...its none of their business.We all, as private citizens, have the right to discriminate for whatever reason.Its called the right to liberty...meaning the right to be free from the coercive decisions of others. <br /><br />In the adult movie industry Women generally are payed far more then Men...anyone going to protest about that?Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-41795995036141684242010-03-10T13:29:52.589+13:002010-03-10T13:29:52.589+13:00I guess a definition of discrimination would be us...I guess a definition of discrimination would be useful, then. When I hear that women are paid less due to "discrimination," I hear that employers are deliberately taking measures to pay women less, or someone else (govt, husband, parents, you name it) is deliberately taking measures that result in them earning less. Evidence of that is singularly lacking, and explanations I've seen tend to fall back on vague concepts like "society expects..."Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-84692512262591287592010-03-10T09:49:12.644+13:002010-03-10T09:49:12.644+13:00I guess I'm pretty sceptical about the idea th...I guess I'm pretty sceptical about the idea that the gender pay gap isn't about discrimination, at least in part. Even the causes that aren't discrimination on the face of it actually boil down to it sometimes, e.g. why do more women than men take time out due to child-stuff? Often the decision is made based on sexist ideas about who should do that work, or pragmatic decisions about who earns less (which just brings us back to the problem of why do women earn less to start with), or school or family-influenced decisions that boys and girls make when they are young that lead their expectations around what will happen when they have kids. <br /><br />I find it hard to believe that those who have faced overt discrimination in our society historically (women, Maori, Pasifika in particular) are now just magically paid less.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-43028829577752873222010-03-09T19:56:59.685+13:002010-03-09T19:56:59.685+13:00so men are more loyal becuase they change jobs mor...so men are more loyal becuase they change jobs more? <br />seriously, first creationists, now this. my brain has broken.sophia bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-28691157168208421662010-03-09T19:03:59.489+13:002010-03-09T19:03:59.489+13:00Gordon Campbell starts out by disparaging organise...Gordon Campbell starts out by disparaging organised labour ("every major advance in workplace conditions has been through outside intervention, usually forced upon employers by government") and moves on to treating the assumption that average pay differences are caused by discrimination as though it were conclusively proven. DPF at least avoids that egregious failure - his view that the study "does lend credence to the theory that there is discrimination in pay rates" is accurate, ie the study is evidence suggesting the existence of discrimination, not proof of it.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-72158631993286077582010-03-09T18:56:18.630+13:002010-03-09T18:56:18.630+13:00"no chatty phone calls, no gossip ..., no sla..."no chatty phone calls, no gossip ..., no slacking off, no shopping breaks, work an extra hour at the end of each day..."<br /><br /><br />Heh. Exactly. Perfect description of what a coworker of mine should... oh wait, they're male. Nevermind then.Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03602596541506633019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-1530507979366111212010-03-09T18:28:04.479+13:002010-03-09T18:28:04.479+13:00and for a little more sanity, gordon campbell.and for a little more sanity, <a href="http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2010/03/09/campbell-fresh-evidence-about-the-gender-pay-gap/" rel="nofollow">gordon campbell</a>.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-38748903841150885882010-03-09T15:16:42.743+13:002010-03-09T15:16:42.743+13:00Danyl, oh thank goodness for Danyl, adds a jolt of...<i>Danyl, oh thank goodness for Danyl, adds a jolt of sanity, suggesting that we could look at having "a government body that audits large employers and looks for gender discrimination and publicises results (ie this company has a 15% gender pay gap between comparable jobs)."</i><br /><br />Didn't we used to have one of those for the public service? I wonder what happened to it...?Idiot/Savanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993069909613708957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-70102689109383406292010-03-09T15:15:27.472+13:002010-03-09T15:15:27.472+13:00It's the jobs women are choosing, they just pa...<i>It's the jobs women are choosing, they just pay less</i><br /><br />Well, that one specifically is crap - this study compared men and women in similar professions, and reported the gap as universal across all professions studied.<br /><br /><i>Men are more likely to be in senior positions, therefore a few highly paid men drag the average up</i><br /><br />Ignoring the broader point that this in itself is an example of gender discrimination in action, the study compared the pay rates of new graduates in their first five years. Highly-paid CEOs are not part of the study, and have no bearing on the results. <br /><br />By focusing on graduates, the study effectively controls for many of the factors traditionally cited to defend the gender pay-gap. It compares within professions and largely removes seniority and children from the equation. Any differences are highly likely to be due to discrimination. The fact that those difference emerge so quickly and strongly ought to be deeply disturbing.Idiot/Savanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993069909613708957noreply@blogger.com