tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post4697090157385887874..comments2023-10-07T22:37:49.244+13:00Comments on The Hand Mirror: Do not waste your time seeing this filmkatyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-29866791566857973282012-07-21T05:29:12.635+12:002012-07-21T05:29:12.635+12:00Thanks Duval - I'm on the same page now. Well ...Thanks Duval - I'm on the same page now. Well aware of the limitations of internet communication, hence my comment about disregarding the (apparent) tone of your first post!<br /><br />I agree regarding the "hero status" of the single father, while single mothers are generally expected to cope. Not sure if absent fathers get off quite as lightly in the public perception as you suggest though - there are plenty of terms like "deadbeat dad" that get thrown around, but as I've no personal experience in the matter perhaps I just haven't enough to go on. <br /><br />As always gender expectation is a double-edged sword - single fathers have a "hero status" precisely because they are apparently going against what comes naturally (in our societies view) and actually being nurturing, which is insulting to me as a father (and I'm sure to you too) to suggest that only women can nurture their children. I've also come across more women than men who express that view (that women are more nurturing than men) and wonder if it is perhaps just defending traditional territory, much as men who resist women moving into positions of power in business probably do. <br /><br />Understand your last sentence now. Without seeing the movie or knowing anything about the director/producer I guess there's no way of knowing if this was what they intended when they made the film...ChundaMarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-16182721303393548012012-07-20T00:37:54.210+12:002012-07-20T00:37:54.210+12:00+1, Duval
I haven't seen the movie, but presu...+1, Duval<br /><br />I haven't seen the movie, but presuming Ann's description is accurate, the problem is not that the husband leaves his wife and finds a new partner, it's that the ex wife's life is somehow ruined until she accepts and facilitates it - even though he's left her, she is still "destined" by some bullshity magical deus ex to be carrying his crap despite getting nothing from him except (let's be charitable) him taking the kids half the time.DPF:TLDRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06372937855256319716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-90562527162079101112012-07-19T20:46:44.348+12:002012-07-19T20:46:44.348+12:00@ChundaMars: Don't sweat the tone aspect - onl...@ChundaMars: Don't sweat the tone aspect - online posts are notoriously problematic for such like :)<br /><br />"the insidious and pervasive notion" ...of gender expectations. I'll give you an example from my own life as I experienced it. I became a single dad to a number of children when the relationship between their mother and I ended. The circumstances around this and why the children stayed with me is beside the point of an example of pervasive gender expectations. There is this view (pervasive notion, if you will) that when a family splits, dad takes a hike and mum soldiers on as best she can in the circumstances (see narrative of movie above). When this "expected" scenario is reversed however, the judgement and scorn on the woman is very noticeable, and nothing like the borderline think nothing of it attitudes men might typically encounter as the absentee parent. To add insult to injury, you then have the glorification of men who are single parents into almost hero status, in stark contrast to the expectations on women to be simultaneous primary caregivers, and work to support the family, and be involved in the community, all while keeping house, and herself in "respectable" condition... less than this, and it's viewed as a failure of the woman. I know because I lived it from the inside as a single dad and saw the juxtaposition of my experience against that of my female parent friends, and saw how my children's mother was viewed and treated in contrast to absentee fathers. This is all getting a bit away from the movie, but the subtext is there, of this and what I formerly wrote on it. As an aside, it good to see more "shared care" becoming more common place amongst seperated parents. Though the issues in that are another discussion entirely.<br /><br />What do I mean by questioning if the "woman's lot in life" undercurrent of the movie was not entirely accidental? I mean is it possible that the debate we are now having in regards to the themes portrayed in the movie are not by chance i.e. did the movie intend to stimulate debate of this nature by making a social statement?? I don't know the answer, and won't hazard a guess as to the mind workings of the producer et al. It was just food for thought.Duvalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16508431008823975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-52995430300412138642012-07-19T15:18:49.745+12:002012-07-19T15:18:49.745+12:00@Duval: putting aside the tone of your posts, than...@Duval: putting aside the tone of your posts, thanks for your explanation. Another genuine question: what other examples can you think of about "the insidious and pervasive notion" you talk about? I'm intrigued to see if I've been missing something.<br /><br />Also, your last line, "I wonder though, if drawing attention to this "it's a woman's lot in life" was not entirely accidental?". What do you mean by that?ChundaMarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-39112758638021320702012-07-19T12:52:16.123+12:002012-07-19T12:52:16.123+12:00Oh, and further to that same narrative... not only...Oh, and further to that same narrative... not only is it the role and responsibility of women to carry the cost and pick up the pieces of men's life choices, but it's to also facilitate him in his pursuit of. The subtext just gets icky. Honestly, sometimes it's embarrassing being a man. I wonder though, if drawing attention to this "it's a woman's lot in life" was not entirely accidental?Duvalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16508431008823975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-58663351449997118912012-07-19T12:20:42.391+12:002012-07-19T12:20:42.391+12:00Why is this a sexist movie??
Gee, it's a toug...Why is this a sexist movie??<br /><br />Gee, it's a toughie. But let me give it the ole college try... Because it further pushes, if not endorses, the insidious and pervasive notion that men can go merrily about their lives in pursuit of what they want, damn the consequences, and it's the assigned role and expected responsibility of women, be they wives, ex wives, mothers, or daughters, to wear the costs and pick up the pieces, and eventually for the good of all concerned to come to terms with this reality.<br /><br />I hope that helps demystify the apparent foggy sexism for those less inclined to see.<br /><br />Respects to all.Duvalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16508431008823975445noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-67473456239628981162012-07-11T19:21:53.453+12:002012-07-11T19:21:53.453+12:00@Simoon - seriously, thanks so much for actually a...@Simoon - seriously, thanks so much for actually attempting to explain it. More than can be said for others commenting here.<br /><br />I see where you're coming from - I guess the thing I struggle with here is that it's a fantasy world so it's hard to look at it as if it is a real-world scenario. The whole situation is just such BS that we don't know if (in the movies universe) things DO happen in reverse i.e. men being forced to accept their wives leaving them for younger/richer men "because fate". Hence my reluctance to describe the whole movie (based on the synopsis alone, of course) a sexist, rather than just a load of crap!<br />Thanks again for actually engaging, rather than hurling insults and storming out ;-)ChundaMarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-42441594710612240212012-07-11T14:08:49.894+12:002012-07-11T14:08:49.894+12:00Sexism, schmexism. Based on Anne E's synopsis...Sexism, schmexism. Based on Anne E's synopsis, this is a movie in which the universe apparently issues you with something called a "soul mate" and you can get useful, accurate information from a medium, rather than a crock of shit aimed at parting you from your cash. If that doesn't scream "Do not waste your time seeing this film," I don't know what would.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-53009673963144217762012-07-10T21:51:34.783+12:002012-07-10T21:51:34.783+12:00If the character in the movie is experiencing all ...If the character in the movie is experiencing all of these things BECAUSE FATE then surely that is a problem with the oppression of religion rather than sexism. Granted these are two similar things, but yeah...anyway I was one of the first commenters and I genuinely didn't see the sexist element at first. I haven't watched the film, just going by what is written above. And I'm female identifying and normally pretty onto it with critiquing sexism, etc, so definitely not the misogynistic male you assumed me to be, Acid Queen. But thanks for the misgendering. Pretty ridiculous from someone who says "Lots of transmen and women post here, I try to be respectful of them." Seems more respectful to actually use gender neutral terms until proven otherwise. <br /><br />Anyway, I was genuinely curious as to what the author thought was problematic because that was never explained. It has been now so thanks. I'll reserve my full opinion until such time if I ever see the film, but it doesn't seem particularly original or great just from this plot summary (sexism or otherwise aside). <br /><br />me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-55970391031100344192012-07-10T09:09:32.612+12:002012-07-10T09:09:32.612+12:00@ChundaMars First, I should say that I haven't...@ChundaMars First, I should say that I haven't seen the film so I'm just going on the description above.<br /><br />Let's suppose that the universe punishes both men and women for going against the whole soulmate thing. So, if the husband had resisted getting together with the new girlfriend, he would have suffered nightmares too. That is, the woman isn't expected to go along with what the universe wants just because she's a woman; men are expected to go along with it too. Would that mean there's no sexism?<br /><br />I don't think so. We have a universe which happens to allocate soul mates in a way which is awfully convenient for the man in question - he gets to leave his wife and get a younger girlfriend, which is what he wanted any way. He doesn't have to feel bad about this at all, and his ex-wife should be accepting, BECAUSE FATE. The "soul mates" thing invalidates assessing the behavior of the various characters from any other perspective.<br /><br />If a universe/society is set up in a way which benefits men, just because it (a) rewards both men and women who don't challenge the way things are set up and (b) punishes both men and women who do challenge the way things are set up, doesn't mean we can say that that universe/society is not sexist.Simoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-51911682656369103732012-07-09T23:21:30.395+12:002012-07-09T23:21:30.395+12:00Jane, google "tone argument".
Even if m...Jane, google "tone argument".<br /><br />Even if my tone is as offensive as you think, it doesn't make the movie any better. Whether or not I am a good or polite person isn't the subject of this post.Acid Queenhttp://www.shakesville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-30444506169325402742012-07-09T23:20:11.764+12:002012-07-09T23:20:11.764+12:00In my experience somebody's name is not a good...In my experience somebody's name is not a good indicator as to whether or not they identify as female or male.<br /><br />Lots of transmen and women post here, I try to be respectful of themAcid Queenhttp://www.shakesville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-51398552096973321972012-07-09T20:03:35.125+12:002012-07-09T20:03:35.125+12:00PS @Acid Queen - way to dodge what I said in my po...PS @Acid Queen - way to dodge what I said in my post. Ok, so you weren't angry, just "disappointed"... nevermind the fact that you assumed the 3 posters who questioned whether the movie was actually sexist were misogynistic men who think so little of women as to believe they would be "better off baking you dinner". Despite 2 of them having clearly female names...ChundaMarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-13517903477530552922012-07-09T19:59:41.015+12:002012-07-09T19:59:41.015+12:00@Simoon - I agree wholeheartedly that the idea any...@Simoon - I agree wholeheartedly that the idea anyone should accept anyone else's behaviour "because fate" is ridiculous. This seems to be a relatively common thread in many romantic comedies actually, which goes with the whole stupid "soulmates" rubbish. But, is it really sexist in this film, as in, is it expected of her BECAUSE she is a woman, and wouldn't be expected if she were a man? <br />Again, genuine question - I haven't seen the film after all!ChundaMarsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-7315947112970440332012-07-09T19:41:19.883+12:002012-07-09T19:41:19.883+12:00Why is it not problematic to have a problem with s...Why is it not problematic to have a problem with someone who finds it problematic that someone doesn't have a problem with a film with which that someone has a problem?<br /> <br />Surely having a problem with whatever someone does or does not find problematic is a problem that affects everyone, even those who have the problem with people who find those with a lack of problem to be problematic?McFlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14288270169212126043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-14792922902904198252012-07-09T19:19:23.235+12:002012-07-09T19:19:23.235+12:00Acid Queen – Excuse me while I pick myself up off ...Acid Queen – Excuse me while I pick myself up off the floor …….<br />“……. Or does this whole "Nobody should ever judge anybody ever" thing only kick in when you're the one doing problematic things” ….. WTF …. It’s problematic that I go to see a movie that you don’t approve of??? <br />“I’m sure I’m a great person and feminist”….. Translation you’re not qualified to have an opinion of your own.<br />“I just think it's a shitty movie and I don't like it when people defend shitty movies”….. Translation, I don’t like this movie, how dare you or anyone else disagree with me. <br />“God, I would really like it if we could discuss movies without people thinking their freedoms are being infringed”… We will have a discussion; I’ll talk, you’ll listen and graciously agree with me…..Janenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-88395368005121021822012-07-09T17:35:10.654+12:002012-07-09T17:35:10.654+12:00@Jane: So when people watch a movie you don't ...@Jane: So when people watch a movie you don't approve of, you don't judge them? Or does this whole "Nobody should ever judge anybody ever" thing only kick in when you're the one doing problematic things.<br /><br />I am sure you are a great person and feminist. I just think it's a shitty movie and I don't like it when people defend shitty movies.<br /><br />God, I would really like it if we could discuss movies without people thinking their freedoms are being infringed.Acid Queenhttp://www.shakesville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-36240388898181621122012-07-09T16:32:45.302+12:002012-07-09T16:32:45.302+12:00Acid Queen – So I don’t need you permission to wat...Acid Queen – So I don’t need you permission to watch a movie, but you will judge me for watching a movie that you don’t approve of. Wow you really do need to get out more.Janenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-36311577188716694972012-07-09T13:46:07.174+12:002012-07-09T13:46:07.174+12:00I am disappointed when sexism goes unchallenged, y...I am disappointed when sexism goes unchallenged, yes.<br /><br />You don't need my permission to watch it, but I don't need your permission to have an opinion on your watching it.<br /><br />So we can all express our opinions without having to worry about anybody requiring anybody's permission to do anything, yay!Acid Queenhttp://www.shakesville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-44761628305863768092012-07-09T13:11:29.179+12:002012-07-09T13:11:29.179+12:00Acid Queen - I really hope you’re not disappointed...Acid Queen - I really hope you’re not disappointed that I and my friends enjoyed this movie. Just as I don’t need a man’s approval, I don’t need yours, thank you.Janenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-72111596301361871942012-07-09T12:53:37.800+12:002012-07-09T12:53:37.800+12:00@Simoon: Exactly@Simoon: ExactlyAcid Queenhttp://www.shakesville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-242416336411170492012-07-09T12:20:46.434+12:002012-07-09T12:20:46.434+12:00The idea that the woman should be accepting of the...The idea that the woman should be accepting of the husband's behavior BECAUSE FATE seems pretty terrible to me.<br /><br />To put it another way - part of the premise of the movie is that there's a force in the universe which makes it fine (actually - more than fine, meant to be even) for men to leave their wives for younger, hipper, tattoeeder women (or at least for this man to.) The ex-wife suffers distress, sleepwalking and nightmares because she doesn't just accept this - the universe punishes her for not just going along with what the man wants. That sounds like a sexist kind of a universe to me.Simoonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-46513713483426247162012-07-09T07:08:26.118+12:002012-07-09T07:08:26.118+12:00A good test for sexism is to swap the genders of t...A good test for sexism is to swap the genders of the characters and ask if the film still "works". In this case, I don't see why not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-47568154105361342592012-07-09T03:01:07.302+12:002012-07-09T03:01:07.302+12:00Was never angry just disappointedWas never angry just disappointedAcid Queenhttp://www.shakesville.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-38545227888296622732012-07-08T21:44:48.093+12:002012-07-08T21:44:48.093+12:00@Acid Queen - whoa, apt name.
I can't speak f...@Acid Queen - whoa, apt name. <br />I can't speak for the others, but I was genuinely asking - it's not immediately apparent to me (based purely on the film synopsis in the post) what is sexist about this movie. Would you care to enlighten me, perhaps?<br />Also, before you get too angry at us "guys", take note of the screennames - Shazza and Jane would appear to be female names, yes? <br />Still angry?ChundaMarsnoreply@blogger.com