tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post7042708987411522344..comments2023-10-07T22:37:49.244+13:00Comments on The Hand Mirror: Diversity Deficit: SuperCity Oligarchykatyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-41831013838270934312009-05-27T09:35:04.812+12:002009-05-27T09:35:04.812+12:00and again anon, it's not a business because it is ...and again anon, it's not a business because it is not an undertaking carried on with a view to making a profit. it is a social service provider, providing services that are unprofitable if they are carried on in a way that serves the whole population. privatising those services will mean that some people will miss out eg like how rural people miss out on broadband, because it is not profitable to provide services to those people.<br /><br />which is why a commercial model for public services just don't work. although it would be useful to have one person on the council with business experience, it would be a huge mistake to have only people with business experience.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-57960272644247649312009-05-27T06:36:46.001+12:002009-05-27T06:36:46.001+12:00:) The feeling is mutual Anna and Anjum. Your poin...:) The feeling is mutual Anna and Anjum. Your points completely miss the boat. Auckland is a business and citizens will be thrilled to know they will have their rates used for the right reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-79519840250312836082009-05-26T08:35:51.802+12:002009-05-26T08:35:51.802+12:00Anon, your point was that better economic growth m...Anon, your point was that better economic growth may result when democracy is dispensed with. I don't know enough about Hong Kong to know about either the strengths of its democratic institutions or economy, but there are plenty of examples of non-democratic regimes that haven't produced good economic outcomes. And there's no necessary correlation between having a formal democracy and redistribution of wealth, either. Totalitarian communist regimes have endeavoured to distribute wealth, as have elected social democratic regimes (eg in Scandinavia). Likewise, both formally formally democratic and non-democratic societies have opposed wealth redistribution.<br /><br />So, to conclude: I actually don't know what you're talking about.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-77521261586550525522009-05-25T23:05:13.525+12:002009-05-25T23:05:13.525+12:00anon, if you can't see the rationale, it's because...anon, if you can't see the rationale, it's because you need to go back and read your own comments. you give the example of hong kong as having a CEO in charge (ie presumably not a fairly elected leader) and so extrapolated that such an example would be successful in all situations. anna gave you an example where it is not successful.<br /><br />and your original point continues to be crap, based on some very tortured logic.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-76351122476658156022009-05-25T22:24:20.993+12:002009-05-25T22:24:20.993+12:00But Anna, you bought up Zimbabwe as an example - I...But Anna, you bought up Zimbabwe as an example - I have yet to see your rationale for it either.<br /><br />THM does support a far larger scale redistribution of wealth than National/ACT propose - so without being too picky, my original point does kinda stand :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-71104478927090424542009-05-25T09:40:23.420+12:002009-05-25T09:40:23.420+12:00Anon, I think you can do a little better than that...Anon, I think you can do a little better than that in your argument. If you think THM bloggers support Mugabe, you're not reading very closely.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-41295072800301825162009-05-25T09:16:35.167+12:002009-05-25T09:16:35.167+12:00sorry anon, even the national party believe in the...sorry anon, even the national party believe in the redistribution of wealth to some extent. if not, why haven't they shut down WINZ and stopped all benefits? and they certainly would have stopped working for families as well. so according to your logic, the national party supports "many of the policies of zimbabwe".<br /><br />see where tortured logic takes you.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-52146274387491973752009-05-25T04:48:07.736+12:002009-05-25T04:48:07.736+12:00Anna, you disappoint me! Zimbabwe is run by a man...Anna, you disappoint me! Zimbabwe is run by a man that supports policies that are not too disimilar from what many of TMH sympathise with - redistribution of wealth is an example.<br /><br />It isn't capitalist, nor democratic. It would be like me telling you that Cuba was a good example of communism which we know is not true either :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-74250322855006465962009-05-24T15:38:32.018+12:002009-05-24T15:38:32.018+12:00Interesting that some seem to think my mention of ...Interesting that some seem to think my mention of Ford's hair colour is ageist rather than descriptive... <br /><br />However it does concern me that yet again we have a powerful group that is dominated by the usual suspects - white men who earn bags of dosh, work in management circles, and tend to be closer to 70 than 30. Are these the only types of people capable of responsibly and effectively wielding power in our society? No. So why are they so overrepresented in powerful groups such as these?<br /><br />Our society is diverse. Auckland region is incredibly diverse. Yet the group making the decisions about the democratic future of Auckland is yet again a majority of the same type of people we so often see in these positions. <br /><br />I would remind readers that any disagreeance or discussion about moderation decisions should be emailed to me for circulation to the Hand Mirror's writers. I'm still stuck in Welly but hope to be home tonight, as long as the weather allows.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-75212308518224135672009-05-24T12:21:23.506+12:002009-05-24T12:21:23.506+12:00"Sounds good to me Anna. Hong Kong has a CEO and h..."Sounds good to me Anna. Hong Kong has a CEO and have low taxes and a lot wealthier economy than NZ. And everybody has excellent health care, education and savings."<br /><br />Hong Kong is an interesting example to choose, being as it is a capitalist enclave within a communist superpower...katyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-33045564070513607632009-05-24T11:37:02.082+12:002009-05-24T11:37:02.082+12:00You think successful NZ women have made it only th...You think successful NZ women have made it only through tokenism, Anon? I know quite a few women in Aotearoa who work hard and have ability. And I could name a few countries that don't have meaningful democracy or high-performing economies. Zimbabwe springs to mind.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-832132527252825082009-05-24T11:11:49.703+12:002009-05-24T11:11:49.703+12:00Sounds good to me Anna. Hong Kong has a CEO and ha...Sounds good to me Anna. Hong Kong has a CEO and have low taxes and a lot wealthier economy than NZ. And everybody has excellent health care, education and savings.<br /><br />I vote NZ goes that direction! And whats better - women are very successful there through hard work and ability and not tokenism! Amazing!! I want in!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-2427082031789573412009-05-24T08:57:45.174+12:002009-05-24T08:57:45.174+12:00Are those who think Auckland is a business suggest...Are those who think Auckland is a business suggesting that there is no place for democratic process in running the city? <br /><br />Presumably, if Auckland fills your definition of a business, NZ does too. Should we do away with elections in favour of an appointed board?Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-71247176068570663272009-05-23T22:52:11.303+12:002009-05-23T22:52:11.303+12:00It has assets, therefore it is a business. But Sav...It has assets, therefore it is a business. But Save the Children has assets, as does the Anglican Church, the Government and communes. So these also are businesses; and what is not a business?Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08024440694895271805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-43646573789843084272009-05-23T22:18:39.135+12:002009-05-23T22:18:39.135+12:00Ok - tell me why this isn't a business (as it seem...Ok - tell me why this isn't a business (as it seems that most others think it is) and also who would you elect as your 5 to turn this into the organisation it should be.<br /><br />What else do you call something that will oversee the entire population of Auckland, it's assets, losses, businesses, planning...<br /><br />Looks like a business! Not a commune kids. Bless you for being so naive about it :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-63109386479668293272009-05-23T21:09:39.330+12:002009-05-23T21:09:39.330+12:00no kate, it isn't a business, but these 5 are supp...no kate, it isn't a business, but these 5 are supposed to turn in into one. because that works so well. so well in fact that we have collectively overpaid about $2billion to our power companies. yup, i'm sure aucklanders want more of that.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-8170847205602271902009-05-23T20:40:22.566+12:002009-05-23T20:40:22.566+12:00Auckland City is now being run as a business. You...Auckland City is now being run as a business. You can't deny that, even if you don't like it. Get used to it.<br /><br />Deborah - you colour your grey hair as to not appear older than you are to other people. Grey = old. <br /><br />Alison - lets just eliminate all the middle-age white men from all forms of business on the basis of there being too many of them. <br /><br />There's a Maori member of the five Mr Walden, therefore Maori have 20% representation already. The fact he isn't a basket weaver and has business experience however and everyone seems to forget this. <br /><br />Anyway, this job isn't for basket weaving light-weights. The skills required are business related, reading financial statements, consolidation and re-structuring. <br /><br />Why? Because Auckland City is now a business not a community charity with an endless pot of ratepayers money to play with.Cactus Katehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10136331420768264938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-54725751563814058682009-05-23T15:25:53.967+12:002009-05-23T15:25:53.967+12:00Auckland City is a business, a very LARGE business...<I>Auckland City is a business, a very LARGE business.</I>I was going to call bullshit on this, but I see Paul has already made my key point for me: Auckland isn't about delivering a profit to shareholders - it is about giving effect to the will of its citizens. It is not about management - it is about <I>representation</I>. Sadly, too many people seem to be unable to distinguish between the two.Idiot/Savanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08993069909613708957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-84653777759060078012009-05-23T14:34:44.207+12:002009-05-23T14:34:44.207+12:00@Cactus Kate: "Auckland City is a business, a...@Cactus Kate: "Auckland City is a business, a very LARGE business. This group are proven professional businesspeople. They can read a balance sheet, construct legal argument from 1000's of pages of legislation and reading." <br /><br />Just to clear this up, Auckland City is not a businss; it is a local government. An example of a business is Moet & Chandon. Its purpose is to make a profit from the production of fizz. The purpose of Auckland City is the administration of Auckland, not the making of profit. This is an important distinction.<br /><br />I hope this has been helpful.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08024440694895271805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-62598448553282014002009-05-23T11:36:04.164+12:002009-05-23T11:36:04.164+12:00I've got grey hair, Cactus Kate, 'though I colour ...I've got grey hair, Cactus Kate, 'though I colour it. How old do you think I am?<br /><br />You know, I'm okay with the appointment of John Waller. Merging large organisations is a complex task, and it does seem useful to have someone on the board who has explicit experience in doing it.<br /><br />But there's a whole series of issues to do with the <A HREF="http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=14385893" REL="nofollow">politics of presence</A> which this board, and the way it was appointed, does not address. I'll try to get something written about it over the weekend.Deborahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14182573274494086468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-81879703902899362832009-05-23T11:04:04.694+12:002009-05-23T11:04:04.694+12:00It really all depends on the value you put on demo...It really all depends on the value you put on democratic representation. If you're comfortable with a third of the country being run without any democratic input, this option is probably as good as any. I personally think that democracy has quite a lot going for it, and I'd like to preserve it.<br /><br />And Penny, THM doesn't 'think' anything. It's a blog, contributed to by a collection of bloggers who have different opinions. And Julie didn't say anything like what you've suggested in your 'paraphrasing'. If you can't discuss a post without misrepresenting it, can I respectfully suggest that you a) 'grow up' as you put it, or b) go somewhere else.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-84359552121716041332009-05-23T10:35:28.469+12:002009-05-23T10:35:28.469+12:00This is all getting very silly. These people all l...This is all getting very silly. These people all look very qualified to turn Auckland into a supercity. It wouldn't be achieved by stacking it full of a certain type of people because we needed representation. The men and women in this group are all talented and you're being a little bullish by saying otherwise.<br /><br />Have you met any of them? What do you really know apart from being ageist against one?<br /><br />Julie, you're outdoing yourself again...didn't you get upset that Rankin had "lunch" with Sir Roger Douglas once? This post is even sillier than that.Suzy QTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-75405597348537252272009-05-23T09:30:47.714+12:002009-05-23T09:30:47.714+12:00Last time I looked, Auckland wasn't a commune - an...Last time I looked, Auckland wasn't a commune - and it was crying out for reform.<br /><br />I don't think bringing in your choices will do AK any good - who would you choose instead of these five people anyway?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-33661183018879362382009-05-23T09:28:49.781+12:002009-05-23T09:28:49.781+12:00What THM is really saying is that there is not a w...What THM is really saying is that there is not a whiff of a hard left feminist anywhere near the main decision making process.<br /><br />Aucklanders are sighing a lot louder for this blessing, remember - Auckland voted AGAINST your policies and ideology.<br /><br />Your inherent bias against men, grey headed men or anybody remotely successful that doesn't fall into your minority 5% viewpoint is sad. Really sad.<br /><br />I'd rather people were there on true merit, and the people on this list are all truely successful Kiwis. You may not like it but each on of them has more talents in their little fingers than any of you have.<br /><br />Grow up!Pennyhttp://www.labour.org.nznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-79801534121279457592009-05-23T09:18:42.824+12:002009-05-23T09:18:42.824+12:00But why are middle-aged white men so often the bes...But why are middle-aged white men so often the best for the job Kate? Do you seriously dismiss any idea of systemic sexism/racism contributing to that? <br /><br />And yes, Auckland city is a business, but that's by no means all it is - I don't deny for a second that they need a good businessperson or two in the team, but what about some of the other essential areas of local government. Urban design? Cultural affairs? Utilities? Being a top business guru doesn't automatically equip anyone to deal with those.<br /><br />I am just so sad about this whole super-city change. I spent 3/4 of my life in Manukau, and I can't see how it could escape being disadvantaged by the new regime.Alisonnoreply@blogger.com