tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post8776351474340849062..comments2023-10-07T22:37:49.244+13:00Comments on The Hand Mirror: kiss pay equity goodbye...katyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-23981981813956744992009-05-20T22:10:55.738+12:002009-05-20T22:10:55.738+12:00at least we'll have people working on the problem,...at least we'll have people working on the problem, rather than it being completely ignored. this a problem that the market isn't going to solve. neither is there a short-term fix.<br /><br />but pretending it's not even a problem? total fail.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-83940718340665524012009-05-20T21:57:44.518+12:002009-05-20T21:57:44.518+12:00So in short, if Labour win again we will get the p...So in short, if Labour win again we will get the pay parity we have waited so long for?<br /><br />Hold on....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-5780251758595049682009-05-20T09:21:32.390+12:002009-05-20T09:21:32.390+12:00sory tui, just getting rid of the trolls. this on...sory tui, just getting rid of the trolls. this one's not worth responding to.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-42489765097299538772009-05-20T08:47:00.000+12:002009-05-20T08:47:00.000+12:00Wow, mareika, you're right, I've just realised tha...Wow, mareika, you're right, I've just realised that not everyone wants feminism - hateful homophobes don't want feminism! Luckily, I don't give a flying crap what hateful homophobes want. Now that's a comment that deserves to be deleted.Tuihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11028316277815052897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-75865516011624740542009-05-18T21:22:00.000+12:002009-05-18T21:22:00.000+12:00no worries anita. i already asked that exact same...no worries anita. i already asked that exact same question (in a much more long-winded way!), and the response was what led me to the conclusion that there's no helpful insight to be gained here!stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-73567180854720870832009-05-18T21:13:00.000+12:002009-05-18T21:13:00.000+12:00Oops, stargazer feel free to remove my last commen...Oops, stargazer feel free to remove my last comment. I was reading from the top of the thread down.Anitahttp://www.kiwipolitico.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-72979461320851299732009-05-18T21:12:00.000+12:002009-05-18T21:12:00.000+12:00Mareika,
I've checked all the links you provided ...Mareika,<br /><br />I've checked all the links you provided and <I>none</I> say that single women are earning more than single men, let alone prvide any supporting data.<br /><br />Do you have any evidence to back up your assertion?Anitahttp://www.kiwipolitico.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-72650994729214311312009-05-18T20:48:00.000+12:002009-05-18T20:48:00.000+12:00no tui, my thinking went in that direction as well...no tui, my thinking went in that direction as well. good for a laugh is about it!<br /><br />i think marieka that you are now trolling. you've failed to provide evidence, you're making some pretty silly assertions, and half of your comments aren't even coherent.<br /><br />at this stage i'm going to ask you to desist from further comment here. if you have any further points you'd like to make, feel free to start your own blog (or go back to it, if you already have one) and say what you want there.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-79742629515796474522009-05-18T20:37:00.000+12:002009-05-18T20:37:00.000+12:00Men's groups can't get funding to do what they wan...<I>Men's groups can't get funding to do what they want with boys, male youth or men.</I>Am I the only person who went to the NAMBLA place? Thanks for the laugh, Mareika!Tuihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11028316277815052897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-21045193397944548762009-05-18T20:27:00.000+12:002009-05-18T20:27:00.000+12:00A Nonny Moose said...
"We are doing things th...A Nonny Moose said...<br /><br /> <I>"We are doing things that have failed miserably in Russia previously so we have no real way of knowing how possible things are going to work with our social theories."</I> <B> This struck me. Maerika, are you accusing New Zealand of being at worst communist, at best socialist?</B>I don't believe all NZ people are communists. <br /><br />I believe feminism is opting for 2 possibilities. <br /><br />1. Women take over and swap the gender roles around to pay back men for something they think past generations of men have done to past generations of women <I>and if they can't get that</I>2. They will settle for communism.<br /><br />They are not working towards equality. Women's rights are preferences, men's rights are to take responsibility. <br /><br />I have already spoken with Roslyn Noonan and gave a list of things needed for men. She said the International movement of human rights held meetings in Canada (feminists) and were looking at men's rights. <br /><br />We finally have men's rights in NZ but they are all for men to take responsibility. They are all for prevention. All to serve women. <br /><br />Men's groups can't get funding to do what <B>they want</B> with boys, male youth or men. It is all under feminist control. <br /><br />.......<br /><br />They are not working towards equity. If they were they would consider the 6% of men in teaching and other areas where the equity is favouring women. They don't even cap anything. They start with the goal of 50% and then go over with their women's support groups and tax funded lobby groups. <br /><br />......... <br /><br />They are playing it safe both ways in case society wake ups. They have paralysed everyone who is not under their control. <br /><br />And yet, they don't realise the price to pay for generations to follow. And some small piece of me is dying inside thinking they don't even care. <br /><br />.......<br /><br />The sad part is that every power becomes corrupted. Women are no different to men in that respect. <br /><br />Is feminism corrupted? What happened to it?Mareikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03386542451134274904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-81183710021174218972009-05-18T16:26:00.000+12:002009-05-18T16:26:00.000+12:00"We are doing things that have failed miserably in..."We are doing things that have failed miserably in Russia previously so we have no real way of knowing how possible things are going to work with our social theories."<br /><br />This struck me. Maerika, are you accusing New Zealand of being at worst communist, at best socialist?A Nonny Moosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-4330490915426460162009-05-18T16:09:00.000+12:002009-05-18T16:09:00.000+12:00stargazer said...
actually mareika, women are n...<B> stargazer said...<br /><br /> actually mareika, women are not "outdoing" men in all areas of higher education. in an earlier post, i wrote about my discussion with the a staff member at the dept of engineering, university of auckland. there are definitely fewer numbers of women than men in this field, and i suspect you'd find the same in others. for example, the modern apprenticeship programme has a very low intake of women.</B>Your getting silly now. Next you'll be saying we have to decide everyone's job from birth so we have exact equity always. <br /><br />(I am reminded of a past failed attempt in history)<br /><br />No! Let women have freedom from the state as you have given them freedom from the kitchen. Let them be adults!<br /><br />........<br /><br />I have better things to do than argue over something that you don't have. <br /><br />You'll get another chance no doubt but hopefully people will have woken up by then. And hopefully you will have also.Mareikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03386542451134274904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-74900898028713573892009-05-18T12:12:00.000+12:002009-05-18T12:12:00.000+12:00actually mareika, women are not "outdoing" men in ...actually mareika, women are not "outdoing" men in all areas of higher education. in an earlier post, i wrote about my discussion with the a staff member at the dept of engineering, university of auckland. there are definitely fewer numbers of women than men in this field, and i suspect you'd find the same in others. for example, the modern apprenticeship programme has a very low intake of women. <br /><br />secondly, just because they're getting a higher education doesn't mean it translates into higher paid jobs. i've seen research showing that female law graduates earn, on average, $5,000 less than their male counterparts at the time they get their first job. the stuff article you link to talks only about higher education rates, it makes no mention of salaries.<br /><br />please provide evidence that men on the DPB do not get the same opportunities as women for training. this statement is clearly untrue. also, please provide evidence of your claims about immigrant women. the evidence i've seen is that these women are doing the lowest paid jobs, such as being cleaners and working in the elder care sector.<br /><br />also, in the women's participation report you've linked, please provide me with the page number where it says that single women earn more than men. page 7 of the report shows the global gender gap in nz still being 0.764. also see table 16, pag 47 which has more information on the pay gap.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-59493898156571742782009-05-18T10:57:00.000+12:002009-05-18T10:57:00.000+12:00Anita said...
Up thread you said:
Single w...Anita said...<br /><br /> <B>Up thread you said:<br /><br /> Single women are earning more than men on the whole.Stargazer asked for any evidence of this, I can't find an answer. Can you please provide some evidence to back up this assertion?</B>What I meant to say (if I wasn't clear) is that single women are earning more than single men. <br /><br />Women are outdoing men in high education now which is providing better paid jobs to women. <br /><br />http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/540737<br /><br />Women also get free training on the DPB to further their education and provide better pay in jobs. Men on benefits do not receive this so their jobs are paid less. <br /><br />Immigrant women are the same. They too have the benefits to find jobs in leadership that pays better than the men working at the 'glass bottom'. <br /><br />Oh, I wanted to share a piece with you of one feminist commissioner at NOW who was sacked for saying single women earn more than single men on a TV program. I am having difficulty finding it but will keep looking. <br /><br />I will also ask for the statistics in NZ to show you. <br /><br />Here is the NZ commission report if you are interested. <br /><br />http://www.neon.org.nz/documents/HR%20Women_screen.pdf<br /><br />Here is an article in the UK that will describe the push for children in childcare. <br /><br />http://singleparents.org.nz/?s=wage+gapMareikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03386542451134274904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-22836991389517684442009-05-16T17:24:00.000+12:002009-05-16T17:24:00.000+12:00Mareika,
Up thread you said:
Single women are ea...Mareika,<br /><br />Up thread you said:<br /><br /><I>Single women are earning more than men on the whole.</I>Stargazer asked for any evidence of this, I can't find an answer. Can you please provide some evidence to back up this assertion?Anitahttp://www.kiwipolitico.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-8328845585977946952009-05-16T17:01:00.000+12:002009-05-16T17:01:00.000+12:00marieka, our commissioners, MPs, city councillors,...marieka, our commissioners, MPs, city councillors, mayors and public servants all travel to countries overseas all through the year. they visit countries all over the world to see what is happening there, and we have plenty of visits to our country from similar people in other countries. this is because there is no point in reinventing the wheel, and if someone is doing something successful, then we should investigate and see if it will work in another country. i can't see why you have a problem with that.<br /><br />but if you have problems with the commissioners, i direct you to their website www.hrc.co.nz, where you can take the matter up with them.stargazerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00430290445762377335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-77970561462081864902009-05-16T16:15:00.000+12:002009-05-16T16:15:00.000+12:00stargazer, I appreciate your comments to me. (even...stargazer, I appreciate your comments to me. (even though you don't know what I am talking about)<br /><br />I want to spend some time showing you and will. <br /><br />I am not a National supporter any more than I am a Labour supporter. I don't consider feminism owned alone by either one. Feminism is both, as far as I am concerned. Each party has it's own way of bringing goals that are decades old (1990's laws are important, yes!, but so too is the history of decades beforehand). <br /><br />And then the International movement (Sweden, Cananda plus, plus)<br /><br />Our human rights commissioners do not work for NZ but travel to Canada (world leader in feminism) to find out what to do. So do our women refuge leaders. <br /><br />We NEED to allow women to make decisions for their own well-being and that of their children. We are doing things that have failed miserably in Russia previously so we have no real way of knowing how possible things are going to work with our social theories. And we don't really show the costs when we promote the moves forward. <br /><br />I am for freedom of women, not for chains within a system. <br /><br />But enough of my rhetoric (ha, ha). I will come back with a way to have some decent discussion and with sites for reference since you are being good enough to allow my views on this site.Mareikahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03386542451134274904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-89496450187785294572009-05-16T13:13:00.000+12:002009-05-16T13:13:00.000+12:00Tui - didn't actually see the deleted comment, but...Tui - didn't actually see the deleted comment, but it's important to me that THM be not just a safe space, but a place where people can have informed conversations about stuff of interest to feminists. Places like that are few and far between!Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-22189063972427228602009-05-16T13:11:00.000+12:002009-05-16T13:11:00.000+12:00Bizarre is in the eye of the beholder, Cougar - I ...Bizarre is in the eye of the beholder, Cougar - I find it pretty strange when people make comments full of contradictions and with no knowledge of the topic they're talking about. And those who don't like reading THM have a whole world of other blogs to choose from...Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-55565729377123512182009-05-16T13:07:00.000+12:002009-05-16T13:07:00.000+12:00@cougar, the most harassing thing stargazer can be...@cougar, the most harassing thing stargazer can be said to have said is refer to some of Mareika's comments - not even all of it - as "nonsense." IMO this constitutes an accurate assessment of the contents of her comments, especially as in half of them she essentially makes things up. I would also use words like incoherent. <br /><br />I also don't agree with the deletion of the anonymous comments because I think they were pretty lame and not especially threatening. But their blog, their rules, and they aren't implementing an arbitrary standard here - it's consistent with comment policy throughout the blog. If anon has a problem anon can rephrase their comments to fit local standards...Tuihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11028316277815052897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-49502799342055461582009-05-16T12:10:00.000+12:002009-05-16T12:10:00.000+12:00I think you'll find Deborah, the Anon comment you ...I think you'll find Deborah, the Anon comment you deleted told Stargazer off for harrassing the very fair comments made by Mareika with some lame answers, bordering on abuse.<br /><br />Stargazer simply didn't answer her and looked rather silly by continuing to take the piss. <br /><br />There are more "trolls" here because some of the stuff coming out of the mouths of the authors is getting more bizarre every day :)Cougar Grrlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-43378337586706133702009-05-16T07:58:00.000+12:002009-05-16T07:58:00.000+12:00"...the gisborne district council, the state servi..."...the gisborne district council, the state services commission, and tha parliamentary service seemed to find the process useful."<br /><br />In what way? Was pay inequity significantly reduced in those organisations thanks to the Unit's work? And if so, was that reduction due to anything other than offering "remedial pay settlements," ie simply giving people money to cover the gap? <br /><br />"just because you aren't convinced doesn't mean that no-one is."<br /><br />Obviously, otherwise we wouldn't be debating this. But their boss doesn't appear to be convinced either, and I'm saying that under the circumstances, that's not surprising - in its years of existence the unit has come up with a job evaluation scheme (and in my experience different schemes merely introduce a different set of flaws into the process) and the idea of "remedial pay settlements," ie covering the gap by handing out money. All I'm saying is that I'd sack 'em too.Psycho Milthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00779500926576047736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-44239347939717878182009-05-16T00:56:00.000+12:002009-05-16T00:56:00.000+12:00I removed the last comment, an anonymous one direc...I removed the last comment, an anonymous one directed at one of THM's bloggers.<br /><br />Abuse of any kind is unacceptable, but there's something peculiarly cowardly about anonymous abuse.<br /><br />For the record, and for moderation purposes, I do not consider consistent and known handles to be anonymous. This is not a THM policy, just my own, so I've got no concerns whatsoever if anyone else in THM's team has a different view.<br /><br />Sigh... why the big onset of trolls of late?Deborahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14182573274494086468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-65027016061572884252009-05-16T00:20:00.000+12:002009-05-16T00:20:00.000+12:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-72971852643785860912009-05-16T00:14:00.000+12:002009-05-16T00:14:00.000+12:00anjum, you rock. Thanks for fighting the good figh...anjum, you rock. Thanks for fighting the good fight - just reading & making sense of Mareika's posts is a confusing and exhausting experience for me! Your coherent responses awe me.Tuihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11028316277815052897noreply@blogger.com