tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post8346009329653973245..comments2023-10-07T22:37:49.244+13:00Comments on The Hand Mirror: Reasonable Opinionskatyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15742280289613450293noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-65640420126096772612009-04-01T17:18:00.000+13:002009-04-01T17:18:00.000+13:00So James is your intention to basically go around ...So James is your intention to basically go around as many of our comment threads as possible trying to inflame them, in order to put people off genuine discussion here? That's what it is starting to look like. And that is trollish behaviour that we're not interested in. <BR/><BR/>You are basically saying that if someone is sentenced to prison again after being raped in there on a previous occasion then they have asked for rape. Rape cannot be asked for by definition. Try getting a clue before you comment here again.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-7374711200951359112009-04-01T16:15:00.000+13:002009-04-01T16:15:00.000+13:00Hmmmmm reading through this post and the comments ...Hmmmmm reading through this post and the comments its reveling (but not suprising) that the lefties are claiming Mary Lou is resorting to personal attacks when in fact it was her who was called sick by others.<BR/><BR/>Mary Lou asked of Miss abc if she hated ACT and Rodney Hide...a legitimate question considering abc's previous postings and hardly a personal attack.<BR/><BR/>And if prison rape doesn't deter peoople before they get caught and sentanced it sure as hell will afterwards...and if not then it can be assumed that the imate actually has no real issue with it and indeed considers it a plus.....it takes all kinds.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-9723016816367164452009-03-17T14:01:00.000+13:002009-03-17T14:01:00.000+13:00Julie I fully support the reining in of personal a...Julie I fully support the reining in of personal attacks in this stream. I feel it is the correct decision.<BR/><BR/>And to those who took issue with my comments and made rather unfounded comments about my statement - I did not make specific example of people's comments that were personal in nature because then I would be acting out the behavour I had issue with.It would be hypocritical and counter -productive.<BR/><BR/>I was merely making an observation on talking to the argument rather then personal attacks which deflect from the issue at hand. I stand by my point.Bobbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703444049800527977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-16276595941862437422009-03-15T22:51:00.000+13:002009-03-15T22:51:00.000+13:00All this punishment as deterant malarky kind of mi...All this punishment as deterant malarky kind of misses a rather major part of the criminal thought process. <BR/><BR/>Just like you and I when we speed, or park for too long, or do many other things that break various laws and regulations, they, like us, don't think they are going to get caught.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-3500633874163705602009-03-15T22:40:00.000+13:002009-03-15T22:40:00.000+13:00"So they commit more crime so they can be raped in..."So they commit more crime so they can be raped in jail? That's your sort of logic Anna."<BR/><BR/>So the "deterrent" of prison rape is the reason no one commits crimes? That's YOUR apparent logic, Kate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-36738971490921917912009-03-15T12:08:00.000+13:002009-03-15T12:08:00.000+13:00Heartily agree, Julie. If a comment isn't respect...Heartily agree, Julie. If a comment isn't respectful and constructive, it doesn't belong.Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06076244041878300351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-10386585982975909352009-03-15T11:26:00.000+13:002009-03-15T11:26:00.000+13:00Ok Mary-Lou I think that's more than enough. You ...Ok Mary-Lou I think that's more than enough. You are incapable of seeing the contradiction of your own comments. You are attacking others on this thread. You are starting to get rather trollish. Rein it in, contribute constructively, or consider that maybe this blog is not for you.<BR/><BR/>Other commentser (especially other THM bloggers, and double especially Maia, whose thread this is) feel free to chip in on whether my call is good or bad.<BR/><BR/>However it would be quite nice if we could get back to discussing the point of this thread rather than arguing with someone (or about someone) who is clearly enjoying the attention and not really listening anyway.Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-1672928385686059792009-03-15T00:02:00.000+13:002009-03-15T00:02:00.000+13:00I don't think you can say that and mean it 100%. I...I don't think you can say that and mean it 100%. I used to agree, but after having family raped and another killed - hearing on the news that the scumbag behind those crimes was beaten up in jail didn't being any tears from me or our local community.<BR/><BR/>No rape is worth applauding, and as I have reiterated over and over again, it is a crime and those who do it should be punished. But I have no sympathy for callous, unrepentant rapists who get upset when their rights are being taken away from them in prison.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-8696765069041309132009-03-14T19:46:00.000+13:002009-03-14T19:46:00.000+13:00I wouldn't ever applaud rape. But that's just me.I wouldn't ever applaud rape. But that's just me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-14255399733348280802009-03-13T23:13:00.000+13:002009-03-13T23:13:00.000+13:00I am actaully a Labour voter but voted Green last ...I am actaully a Labour voter but voted Green last time on the list as I couldn't totally support Labour last time.<BR/><BR/>What "baiting personality" (of Hides) are you on about Della? And Miss ABC - what behaviour are you tripping on about? I know you must hate ACT in every bone of your body, but please at least have something to back it up - like facts! <BR/><BR/>I have said all along, the rapist is always in the wrong, no matter who is doing it. You're twisting it all about into some attack on rapists rights in prison. If I was raped or viciously assualted and found out my attacker got beaten up or humiliated in prison, I will be the first to applaud. <BR/><BR/>I think if you take off your blinkers, you'll see MOST women and men would agree with me. This isn't political - it's real life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-32078659186330956202009-03-13T19:59:00.000+13:002009-03-13T19:59:00.000+13:00The other point that has occurred to me is that if...The other point that has occurred to me is that if the threat of prison rape is supposed to be some manner of deterrent for potential victims("if you can't do the time, don't do the crime" implies that rape is some factor of "the time"), then doesn't it lessen the discouragement that prison might represent to sex predators (by sending them to a place where they might be able to behave as before)?<BR/><BR/>Similarly, if a person is a thug who only functions with violence, then putting that prisoner into a violent prison serves to only reinforce the behaviour by immersing him in an essentially familiar environment.<BR/><BR/>If prisons were places where violence and sexual assault were eradicated through efficient staff, training and equipment levels, then violent or predatory behaviour would not be rewarded with social status and the prisoner might have to find other social tools for their daily life.<BR/><BR/>If prisons were particularly brutal environments, then they would condition the prisoners to function in brutal and aggressive ways. <BR/><BR/>Just a thought.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-87605569905176226492009-03-13T11:55:00.000+13:002009-03-13T11:55:00.000+13:00"If you are a violent rapist then I am sure the co..."If you are a violent rapist then I am sure the community wouldn't shed many tears if he is violated... however the prison rapist will need to be punished for breaking the law."<BR/><BR/>You don't seem to have grasped anything anyone has said Mary-Lou. <BR/><BR/>If a prisoner - any prisoner rapist or not - gets violated then that is wrong. That's the whole point.<BR/><BR/>I don't know why everyone has to keep repeating it for you. Rape is rape. A violation is a violation.<BR/><BR/>It's not OK in some cases - like if it's a prisoner - and not in others.<BR/><BR/>The "prison rapist" IS punished for breaking the law. He is in prison. That is his punishment. He is being denied his freedom.<BR/><BR/>That will never be enough for people who want to see others suffer.<BR/><BR/>And as for 'shedding tears' - I'd rather cry over rape than celebrate it. <BR/><BR/>Rape is rape. There's no point continuing this if you can't grasp that simple concept.<BR/><BR/>And for the record I thought it was pretty obvious that Miss ABC was referring to Rodney Hide's baiting personality and not saying he was the MP behind this. But I can understand how you could jump to conclusions since you're obviously such an avid ACT supporter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-34856418959548727882009-03-13T11:37:00.000+13:002009-03-13T11:37:00.000+13:00I was not referring to Hide making the comment Mar...I was not referring to Hide making the comment Mary Lou I was referring to people behaving like Mr Hide!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR/><BR/>Being deliberately obtuse by mis-reading comments to continue the vitriol and deflecting from the topic at hand -rape in prison- is unhelpful. <BR/><BR/>I can now understand very clearly why people are no longer wanting to comment on this stream.<BR/><BR/>The total lack of respect by some for an individuals right to a personal opinion is rather sad in a forum which should promote gender equity regardless of topic.Bobbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703444049800527977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-67064009747721068422009-03-13T10:59:00.000+13:002009-03-13T10:59:00.000+13:00Miss ABC. Unfortunately you got it wrong, Hide did...Miss ABC. Unfortunately you got it wrong, Hide didn't even bring this up. You got the wrong ACT MP and therefore you are still being silly. Is it because you hate ACT, or are you actually making a point?<BR/><BR/>If the latter then at least get the right person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-15340735362054927892009-03-13T10:57:00.000+13:002009-03-13T10:57:00.000+13:00Some people have made this into something it isn't...Some people have made this into something it isn't. Giovanni, calling me and my friends sick is just silly. Grow up. We are all allowed to have different opinions.<BR/><BR/>Garrett does not endorse prison rape, never said it. Not once. He is guilty of speaking his mind before getting it softened first - but endorsing rape in prison, he doesn't. <BR/><BR/>The main message is this, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. If you are a violent rapist then I am sure the community wouldn't shed many tears if he is violated... however the prison rapist will need to be punished for breaking the law. That is it. <BR/><BR/>Saying politicans from any party actually believes this is a minor issue is misrepresentation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-37383370734348387042009-03-13T10:51:00.000+13:002009-03-13T10:51:00.000+13:00oops that last comment was meant to come up as mis...oops that last comment was meant to come up as miss abc :)Bobbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08703444049800527977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-65979722762026196712009-03-13T10:48:00.000+13:002009-03-13T10:48:00.000+13:00Yes I am on Giovanni's side of this debate.I feel ...Yes I am on Giovanni's side of this debate.<BR/><BR/>I feel rape is rape no matter what the construct - prison or the street.<BR/><BR/>And to those offended by my Hide comment- by reacting you affirmed my point.<BR/><BR/>I was alluding to the fervor and irrationality in which the tone of discussion was taking.<BR/><BR/>And talking to the person making the argument rather then the actual topic.<BR/><BR/>If we talk to the topic we may actually find some common ground or at least an understanding of why we disagree - wouldn't that be nice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-61820165813883119132009-03-12T22:10:00.000+13:002009-03-12T22:10:00.000+13:00This all works very well if you think that all peo...This all works very well if you think that all people who go to prison are bad, and all people who are not in prison are good.<BR/><BR/>Because with this idea, anyone in prison who gets raped could have avoided it easily by not being bad and subsequently being put in jail.<BR/><BR/>And all those nonincarcerated people who get raped are innocent and don't deserve any such treatment.<BR/><BR/>But unfortunately, some people in prison who have committed violent crimes in the past have actually experienced remorse and been rehabilitated. These people are ten thousand times less dangerous than a Bruce Emery. <BR/><BR/>Yet, the general consensus seems to be that if you're in jail, you're a bad bad person, unconditionally.<BR/><BR/>That's how easy it is to say people deserve a raping, when prison is a theoretical perfect revenge center. And as soon as someone chooses to opt out of your immature fantasy world, you call them a cop out.notafeministhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00205186654218357996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-62117234303858068592009-03-12T17:34:00.000+13:002009-03-12T17:34:00.000+13:00It's another one of those basic belief clashes:A) ...It's another one of those basic belief clashes:<BR/><BR/>A) prison needs to be harsh to deter potential criminals, who are all rational actors and never on drugs, have lower IQ (for want of a better term) or have a variety of psychoses or personality disorder; vs<BR/><BR/>B) prison needs to educate and rehabilitate offenders (for which an intensely hostile environment is hardly conducive).<BR/><BR/>What I find really disturbing is that leading politicians (by which I don't mean ACT, btw) seem to put as little thought into the issue as some of the commentators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-54004787088664806002009-03-12T11:59:00.000+13:002009-03-12T11:59:00.000+13:00I was operating on the "one rule for all" school o...I was operating on the "one rule for all" school of blog moderation. :-) <BR/><BR/>As I said earlier, I was impressed that Maia kept her cool and dignified and responded in an articulate manner to the trogloditic grunts that opened the thread. But then surely there comes a point when all that one has left is indignation, as opposed to conversation.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-9601414110466310892009-03-12T11:55:00.000+13:002009-03-12T11:55:00.000+13:00G, it's so sweet that you thought I meant you! :-...G, it's so sweet that you thought I meant you! :-) Miss abc's concern is largely aimed at those on the other side of the argument from you, no?Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-2746802138152294372009-03-12T11:51:00.000+13:002009-03-12T11:51:00.000+13:00I would have thought we weren't being snarky enoug...I would have thought we weren't being snarky enough, frankly. How high is your tolerance threshold for fascism exactly?Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-16143523643425496102009-03-12T11:48:00.000+13:002009-03-12T11:48:00.000+13:00miss abc, thank you for commenting. Most of the t...miss abc, thank you for commenting. Most of the time threads are not quite this, ah, robust. <BR/><BR/>I think miss abc has given all participants a timely reminder about being a bit less snarky on this thread?Juliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08977150346842277994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-25210023832537861202009-03-12T11:40:00.000+13:002009-03-12T11:40:00.000+13:00Don't accuse someone of "clouding the issue" then ...Don't accuse someone of "clouding the issue" then cloud the issue completely Mary-Lou.<BR/><BR/>Nobody has said 'feel sorry' for prisoners. I like most normal people just don't condone rape. Rape is rape. No matter who the victims is - It's wrong.<BR/><BR/>Simply expressing that rape shouldn't happen to anyone does not mean anyone should 'feel sorry' for prisoners. I have no idea how you managed to get that impression.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8770341086445997547.post-80967630683937519462009-03-12T11:01:00.000+13:002009-03-12T11:01:00.000+13:00And nobody said they wanted rape to happen in the ...<I>And nobody said they wanted rape to happen in the prison... typical tactics to smear the discussion. NOBODY said it. That's that.</I><BR/><BR/>Thus quoth David Garrett: "if you don't want to be assaulted - or worse - by a cellmate, avoid prison by not committing a crime"<BR/><BR/>Translation: criminals don't deserve to be protected from crime and violence. We shall turn a blind eye, with the excuse that it would be too expensive to police a prison.<BR/><BR/><I>Who's sick now?</I><BR/><BR/>You and your pals, that much is painfully clear.Giovanni Tisohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618534731338616708noreply@blogger.com