Tuesday, 2 March 2010

Feedback please

I've been having a bit of a discussion over at Public Address System which started out being about some of the wackiness that Act people engage in but is now largely about the Herald on Sunday's attempt to interview Bailey Kurariki recently.

Specifically, whether the journalists involved in the incident that lead to the headline "Child Killer becomes sex pest" are somehow culpable for what happened.

I'd appreciate some feedback from y'all about whether I'm way off the mark or not.

In my first comment I wrote this:
Also, while I feel more than the average amount of sympathy for Bailey Kurariki no woman (or man) is ever asking for what happened to those journalists, which seems to be the subtext of many of the comments here.
And I've been getting quite a bit of push-back, and a little support, which I can understand because obviously it is a bit of a controversial thing to say and some people have, again understandably, taken my comments quite personally.

What do you think, dear readers?


Placebogirl said...

I was so horrified at the victim blaming evidenced in your post, that I went and read the comments at the Pyublic Address just to see if I could figure out where they were coming from. All that got me was a headache. There is no excuse for saying these women asked for it.

Tidge said...

Both Kuariki and the journos are victims, in different ways, IMHO.

Kim said...

I do not agree with Mr Kuariki has done but I feel very sad for him.

Our country failed him as a child (I am not sure whether he was abused or something happened in his family but something must have been seriously wrong for this child to murder another human being). We then failed him again in providing adequate care, support and rehabilitation whilst he was in prison. Then our media attacks him as soon as he gets out of prison instead of letting him get on with his life after serving his time.

I do not support his actions, I feel so sad for the individual he brutally killed and the women he has recently abused. At the same time though it seems like he has never been given a chance in life to be a normal human being, never been given the proper love or support from a family or even adequate support from our government.

mickysavage said...

I think that Kuariki needs help and the reporters should not go to his home again.

And if they are going to lodge a police complaint that is fine, and apparently perfectly appropriate but I would prefer for a Court to rule on the matter rather than the Sunday Herald.

If he behaved like this then let there be consequences. But let the system that decides on his guilt or innocence be an independent one.

Brett Dale said...

Am I right in saying, you think the Journalists are somewhat at fault?

Can I put it to you, you wouldnt be saying this if Bailey was white.

Ive read a lot of your blog posts over the years, and although I dont want to use the word, racist, (thats the catch cry of posters of the Standard) you seem to judge crime and actions by Maori men, different than pakeha.

Why is that?

Boganette said...

I agree that the journalists did not ask for what happened to them. And they didn't deserve it whatsoever. The victim-blaming shit going on is disgusting (and I think partly driven by how much people hate journalists).

If the allegations are correct then the two reporters are victims.

Kuariki has been absolutely crucified by the media. And he has no chance of rehabilitation with the way the media hounds him. But that doesn't excuse what he allegedly did to those journalists.

This comment from the Herald is particularly disgusting to me:

"Lobby group Rethinking Crime and Punishment has questioned the paper's judgement. Its director Kim Workman said the decision to send two female reporters without male escorts was "beyond comprehension" as Kurariki dislikes the media, and in particular hated the Herald, he said."

Are they saying that female journalists shouldn't have the right to do their job and feel safe doing their job? - And that Kuarariki and anyone who dislikes the media has a right to attack/assault female journalists? Of course he hates the Herald. So what?

The bit about male escorts made me vom in my mouth.

Ethically it's disgusting to call someone a sex pest when no charges have been laid.

Also this might get me heat but he was found guilty of manslaughter (he was a lookout at the murder) - and I doubt many people could name the five people who were involved in actually committing the murder. The focus has always been on Kuariki who was a child when he acted as a look-out during the murder. Yet the fact that five others were involved is barely mentioned in papers and he's never described as "Convicted of manslaughter" it's always: "NZ'S YOUNGEST KILLER!! Rarr!".

Garth McVicar will be loving this. I eagerly await a press release from him likely stating that Kuarkiki should be slowly stoned to death in the middle of Auckland. Stands could be set up for the audience etc. McVicar probably thinks it would be good pre-match entertainment for World Cup games.

Craig Ranapia said...

Placebogirl :

OK, perhaps I should have mansplained everyone over on PAS, and stated the (to me) bleeding obvious:



But I make no apologies for questioning the lack of judgement, ethics and sheer human decency on display in the pursuit of a story of roughly zero actual news value.

It has been a long time since I was a working journo, but I'm glad to be out of it if women are being pressured to compromise their own safety and integrity for so little. And I sure as shit don't think that's what their foremothers who fought tooth and nail to be taken seriously outside the "women's page" ghetto were standing up for.

Brett Dale said...

At what age does Bailey take responibility for his actions.25?,35?,45? 60?

I totally disgree that society has let him down. Or our country failed him.

In fact I think its the reverse.

Ther only thing our country did wrong was to reward him.

You should NEVER reward bad behaviour, but hey when he was in little boys prison, he was visited by the stars of shortland street and the all blacks, geting his picture taken.

I wonder how many people who blame society for Bailey's crimes, could name you one of his victim's children or grandchildern, I bet those actors and rugby players couldn't.

Every effort should be made to help them, not the criminal that caused them grief.

Lets face it, Baliey cares for one person, himself. He couldnt care less about society or the system, he has had so much done for him, yet he never changes, I wonder why????

Every judge has sucked up to him, giving him one last chance, Im pretty sure he will get one last chance again.

Its about time, to tell him, that hes an adult and its no one else's responbility for his crimes but his own.

Lily said...

"At what age does Bailey take responibility for his actions.25?,35?,45? 60?"
- How do you know he hasn't taken responsibility for his actions?

"Ther only thing our country did wrong was to reward him."
- How was he rewarded?

"he was visited by the stars of shortland street and the all blacks, geting his picture taken."
- Do you have a link to an article saying this happened? It's the first I've heard of it.

"could name you one of his victim's children or grandchildern," - His victim was Michael Choy. Not only do I think most people know that name, but I imagine anyone who reads the paper also knows the name of his mother Rita Croskery as she is a campaigner for tougher sentencing. Michael Choy didn't have children or grandchildren. Since you asked the question I've given an answer I wonder if you'd answer another poster's question - can you name the people who murdered Michael Choy?

"Lets face it, Baliey cares for one person, himself. He couldnt care less about society or the system, he has had so much done for him, yet he never changes, I wonder why????"
- You should wonder. Instead of seeing things as so black and white and instead of being so reactionary you could actually wonder why he is not being rehabilitated properly.

"Every judge has sucked up to him"
- Could you give an example of a judge sucking up to him?

"Its about time, to tell him, that hes an adult and its no one else's responbility for his crimes but his own."
- Yes he's an adult now but he was a child when he was involved in the murder of Michael Choy. And you have no evidence that he hasn't taken responsibility for his role in Michael Choy's murder.
What does 'taking responsibility' mean to you?

Brett Dale said...


His behaviour over the years has shown that he hasnt taken repsibility for the part he played in Michael's murder.

Brett Dale said...

"Instead of seeing things as so black and white and instead of being so reactionary you could actually wonder why he is not being rehabilitated properly."

Perhaps he has to want to be rehabiliated? but im guessing you think its the system's fault.

Brett Dale said...

Link to old all black meet bailey story.


ms p said...

I was following the same thread and was very relieved when you pointed out the victim-blaming, being too chicken to comment myself and yet increasingly infuriated.

McFlock said...

Big surprise.

I agree with pretty much everyone except Brett Dale.

Mostly because he seems to conflate "understanding motives" with "excusing actions".

As for the implication that a couple of visits from NZ "celebrities" (rotfl) is a "reward" that makes imprisonment from the age of 13 enjoyable... for some reason I think Brett lacks a sense of perspective.

Brett Dale said...

There is no way a celeb should of visited him, he was the criminal.

Boganette said...

Brett Dale - The visit from an All Black wasn't a "reward" it's part of a system to provide role models for youth at risk of offending.

You're practically making shit up to suit your argument. Or at least leaving out pretty important information.

The youth @ Kingslea who got to meet the All Black for one-off mentoring had to have good records of behaviour in order to be approved for the programme. It was not just Kuariki - and you know that but chose to leave that out.

All the youth involved got photos with the All Black as well.

I suppose you're also upset about MPs, doctors, police, Maori leaders, writers, artists etc coming in to mentor the youth as well?

Would you have preferred it if Kuariki was put in solitary confinement for his entire sentence? Or maybe the death penalty?

Brett Dale said...


Heres my problem with the visit.

You say it was part of a system for youths at risk or offending.

I'm all for that, that is fine.

My problem with them seeing Bailey, is that, He already Offended, its not like he was from a poor area and they set up a visit, he had already commited a crime.

I could even go far to say, I dont have a huge problem with famous people visiting youth offenders if their crime was small, petty crime and such.

I think for the level of the crime that bailey did though it wasnt approciate.

(BTW: I had no idea it was a reward for good behaviour)

No, I dont think Bailey should of gotton the death penatly, I dont think he should of gotton solitary confinment either.

His face should of never been shown on TV or put in the papers.

He got what he should of got as a youth.

My problem is with whats happening now.

As a adult, it still seems he has been treated like a kid, there has been judges who have given him one last chance several times.

There has to be a level, where he stops having home detention gets sent to a jail.

What message is it to him , that he contuine to commits crime but not go to jail.

Boganette said...

Brett - every youth in the centre has offended in some way. That's how they got there OK? Pretty obvious I thought. The mentoring programme is about setting the youth up so they don't reoffend by providing positive role models for them.

It's incredibly important to ensure that youth who commit serious crime don't reoffend. The mentoring programme is not a reward. I repeat: NOT A REWARD. It's a programme to try and stop reoffending.

I never once said it was a reward. It's you who is fixating on it being a reward. It is NOT A REWARD.

Your other comments don't make sense in light of the fact that you don't think he should have had access to rehabilitation programmes while serving his sentence for his role in Michael Choy's murder.

And you haven't provided any proof judges are giving him 'second chances' or being lenient towards him. That's just your opinion based on what you read in the Herald.

Your last two sentences don't make any sense whatsoever since he's only just been released from jail - he served time for breaking a TV news camera.

Brett Dale said...

Okay perhaps Im not good in explaining myself.

Yes I beleive in setting up mentoring programmes for youth,so the dont reoffend.

I beleive in the case of Bailey's crime, that he needed serious treatement, and the types ofm visits he had, would of been no use.

This has been proven by him reoffending.

The judges statements, "One last chance" over the years, are from court readings.

The point I was making in my last two senetences was, Bailery has breached parole, and has commited other crimes, yet he is still allowed to have home detention, what kind of message is that sending to this 21 year old man.

IMHO, he is thinking, hey I can do what I like Im not going back to jail.

If the latest allegatations are proven to be true, I beleive their should be a jail sentence.

Brett Dale said...

Its my understanding that he did not go to jail for breaking the TV camera, that he was on HD for that.

Boganette said...

I can't debate with you if you're going to be disingenuous.

The journalists went to Kuariki's house because he'd just been released from jail. He'd been in jail Brett. OK?

You don't actually know what you're talking about so I think it's pointless discussing this with you.

For the record - he had an assault charge brought against him and charges for non-compliance with conditions of his parole order. When the non-compliance order came through he was recalled straight to prison. High Court judge Justice Rhys Harrison ruled he was being held unlawfully.

So you're either making stuff up or you're just seriously, seriously uninformed.

Brett Dale said...

Im seriosuly seriously uninformed.

I honesty thought he hadnt been in jail.

I stand corrected and I say sorry.

AnneE said...

Um - a tiny point, but his name is Bailey Kurariki, not Kuariki.

Julie said...

Thanks AnneE, have corrected, sorry that is my error - I sounded it out in my head but obviously didn't do that right!

Thanks for all the feedback. The thread at PA System has got worse imho, with someone called Robbie subsequently saying some stuff that I find pretty awful to even read, so I'm leaving it alone.