Guestie: The conversation Difficult Lemon is really fed up with having over and over again

Many thanks to Difficult Lemon, who you can find on Twitter, for this guest post.  She was inspired to pen this by recent local events and the Twitter feed of Melissa McEwan.  

[This is the conversation] I have had literally hundreds of times with various (white, heterosexual, cis) men who want to claim the label feminist by standing on a hill and pointing and saying 'there be sexism' 'there be racism' but resist any and all efforts to challenge individual incidents of sexism, ESPECIALLY if they themselves are being criticised.

1. ARE YOU SAYING MEN CAN’T BE FEMINIST?
Stop projecting your anxieties onto me. You’re a white male. You can do pretty much whatever you want. It’s a sweet deal.

2. WHY ARE YOU NOT A HUMANIST?
As long as there are men (and women, who are subject to the same negative socialisation), who would ostensibly be part of the "humanist" movement, yet retain a visceral and violent reaction to the feminine, there is no foundation for a sexless, "humanist" movement. This cross applies to anyone who tries to argue that the Pakeha party and the Maori party are moral equivalents and we should all just join the ‘equality party’. Bleurgh. 

3. WHY ARE YOU OVERSENSITIVE ABOUT RAPE JOKES?
Rape culture is real. You are not sensitive enough. These jokes are everywhere, unfortunately, and trying to keep my spaces clear of them is very important. The real thought police are those who made you think this kind of behaviour is normal, not the other way around.

4. WHY ARE ALL THE ACTIVISTS SO CRAZY, LOOKING FOR REASONS TO BE ANGRY?
People are angry for a reason. Try and listen to what they are telling you, fight through the defensiveness. This applies to white feminists like me too, our movement is pretty racist, we need to own that.

5. WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME?
Calling criticism attack is an age old de-railing strategy, so a conversation that should centre the life experiences of women comes back to you, and your hurt feelings. If you are a man and go into feminist spaces and make the discussion be all about you, this is a hugely damaging practice. Stop.

Speaking to the National council of Women of NZ

Last night I had the opportunity to speak to a group at the National council of Women of NZ. I was asked to be a part of a panel of speakers to the theme of women in interesting jobs but unfortunately due to illness I was the last woman standing! This meant that I wrote my key points into a more formal speech, and discussed the themes of women in workplaces as well as just my own experiences.

 I agreed to pop my speech up on the blog and to link to the themes that I spoke on, to allow people interested to explore these themes at their leisure in a more in-depth way.

Please head over to my blog for the transcript of the speech itself, it’s a bit long and too “101” to feel comfortable posting on THM, but I’ve popped the links of interest at the bottom of this post.

 I really didn’t know what to expect but had been given a heads up by Julie, who knows I have a terrible sweary mouth on me, that it was a more conservative group than let’s say the libraries panel I was on discussing a fortnight ago, on sex and literature!

At the start of the meeting my support buddy and I were introduced along with a few other visitors, and then the members stood and identified themselves, I only got more nervous. Representatives were present from a wide range of women’s groups, from different generations of feminism, and multiple branches of different types of church.

I was SO out of my depth here.
Shaking in my boots, I was petrified that I would be “teaching them to suck eggs.” Many of these women were of the generations where ANY out of the home work post-children was sticking your neck out; my little struggles in a volunteer role, and success at work weren’t worth a mention. I thought to myself perhaps at least I might offer a little clarity into the theories behind the experiences.
As I started speaking, my first comment about not feeling qualified to speak to the room got a lot of laughs, and when I asked if anyone else had felt that “imposter syndrome” most of the room sheepishly raised their hands, and then roared with laughter and a quick chat with the person next to them when they realised they weren’t alone.
I suddenly realised that what I could provide with my talk was a reminder that although we are still fighting similar battles, we are fighting it together, with wonderful communities. The experience of feeling like we have stepped beyond where we “should be” was a shared one between generations.

Once the speech was done, questions that came from the group were fantastic, and it was a real privilege to be able to have a cup of tea and chat one-on-one afterwards.

 

Themes discussed, and interesting links to read.

Some Imposter syndrome articles

http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2008_02_15/caredit.a0800025

http://www.paulineroseclance.com/pdf/ip_high_achieving_women.pdf

Imposter syndrome discussed on women’s hour BBC radio

The Glass ceiling

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/women-still-find-it-hard-to-smash-glass-ceiling-8605348.html

 NY times article about the glass ceiling

 

Federal Glass Ceiling Commission.

 

The Glass elevator

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~f2004.soc.327/escalator(dec03).pdf

Dunning and Kruger.

Unskilled, and unaware of it, the Dunning-Kruger effect

Interesting resources.

The Glass elevator is an initiative designed to contribute to increasing the number of women in senior executive positions.

 

Patriarchy vs feminism

UPDATE:  The awesome quote below turns out to be by the super awesome Chally, at Zero At The Bone, who wrote these wise words in a post from November 2011.  Sincere apologies to Chally for not acknowledging this when posted.

I've seen this circulating on Facebook and thought I would share it here :-)

Feminism 101 - Spoons.

Cross posted from my usual place.

Before we start, head over to Christine Miserandino’s piece from which the “spoon theory” has stemmed. It’s a brilliant piece, and the depth of understanding about what it is to have a disability that she managed to convey with her explanation is wonderful.



When I first started reading feminist blogs it wasn’t long before I started hearing about “spoons”
“I haven’t got the spoons”
“Urgh, I’m getting low on spoons”
“Anyone got the spoons to help me out with this jerk?”
And so-on.
I ended up asking a feminist friend to find out WTF people were talking about, because when you Google “spoon theory” you are more likely to read about the “silver spoon” sort of thing.
The overwhelming understanding in feminist circles appears to be that we only have limited resources to deal with our daily battles, whether they are personal, professional, or online. At times when there are heated debates on topics which may trigger us, those resources get depleted at a higher rate than usual.
Christine’s writing equated resources with spoons in relation to her Lupus, and the fact that those who live with Lupus have a constant struggle to maintain their lives while their condition deteriorates.
When people on the feminist blogs talk about “not having enough spoons” it may mean that they feel like they can’t deal with whatever it is that has been happening, do not have the energy to continue to debate, or just cannot find it in themselves to explain for what feels like the millionth time a concept to someone who may or may not actually want to learn.
Sometimes it is used among friends to ask for help. i.e. “I’m running out of spoons – can you come help deal with this troll?”
Sometimes to display distain at someone asking stupid questions, or repeating the same points. i.e. “I really don’t have the spoons to deal with you anymore.”

What is important to realise is that the Spoons concept was driven by someone with a long term debilitating illness. It is much loved by squillions of people who also struggle with limited spoons.
Go to twitter and use the hash tag #spoonies and you will find a reel of men and women all trying to cope with a myriad of disabilities daily and nightly. Their spoons are so much more valued than mine, just simply because I have more to start with, and do (usually) not have to truly economise with them.
It is for this reason that I don’t use the term “spoons”, because I feel like it isn’t really mine to use. I like the phrase, and I sure as hell think that it is relevant to everyone at some point in time, but it just feels a little like I’m undermining the original meaning now that I am in the fullness of health.

Tea-spoons is another phrasing that is less commonly used (as I have noticed), and the origions of this seem to be Florynce Kennedy. Check out the lovely Melissa McEwan over at Shakesville who uses the term regularly.

Just by nobody doing nothing the old bullshit mountain just grows and grows. Chocolate-covered, of course. We must take our little teaspoons and get to work. We can't wait for shovels."

I hope that this helps out people looking to find out what the heck is being talked about on the blogs when someone refers to “spoons”. Let's grab our tea-spoons and start shoveling hey?

Below I have included what spoons mean to other people, because there seems to be a slightly wider range than just what I thought.

“spoons” is just such a nice, succinct way of expressing “a finite, slowly-renewable resource I have to consciously think about allocating.”


I think it isn’t just good for understanding Lupus, but anyone dealing with any disability or illness.


Maya of “capitalism bad”
“Something that you might like to be aware of is that the person who wrote it, and others who have similar health issues (she has Lupus) are very critical of the way that it has been used much more broadly than originally intended...
There is an argument that the wide adoption of the metaphor for the lives of people under very different circumstances is a form of appropriation."


@Rageaholic_
I always thought it referred to having the patience to spoon-feed information in small and easily digestible chunks. But I think that was an assumption or I made it up-recently read the spoon-theory some1 linked to on THM & it's very different.
I should've made it "patience, time & ability" I realise it's more than just about getting frustrated with newbies sometimes.


1. We, the community of people with invisible chronic illnesses, need a terminology that describes just our experiences to use amongst each other and with the outside world.
2. That terminology, so far, is mostly The Spoon Theory.
3. The spoon theory has been great in getting the message across that our pain and fatigue and other symptoms make our daily lives very different from people who don't have invisible chronic illnesses.
4. People have taken the terminology and run with it.
5. This is great when it's being used to describe the experiences of people with invisible chronic illnesses.
6. This is problematic when it gets used for other things.
7. PLEASE STOP USING THE SPOON THEORY TO TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT AREN'T ABOUT BEING CHRONICALLY ILL.
8. Thank you.


@GraveyDice
I think of #spoons as an inverse of harmful culture, which is created by millions of small actions, each on their own trivial but collectively add up to something monstrous. #Spoons is the neutralizing of harmful culture in the same way - in tiny steps.
And the great benefit of #spoons is that the big problem is too big to comprehend fully, or to try to address. Whereas #spoons allows us to deal with small actions, one isn't overwhelmed by the enormity of the problem.


@TSpankhead
there's this, though it doesn't add anything. :)

@MeganWegan
Can't find the post, but short answer: pick the fights that are worth winning, and self-care is really important. No point trying to be any kind of activist if you're too tired for the fight.


Deborah.
There's another spoon concept, of using a teaspoon to empty an ocean, of misogyny usually. A huge and impossible task for one person, but little bit by little bit, as feminists from all over the world work on a issue, each wielding a teaspoon, the ocean is lowered.

NB: I have found Christine Miserandino very approachable and there may well be a response from her updated to this page in the next few days... fingers and toes crossed :)