Tuesday 16 November 2010

it's not how we're drinking, it's the drinking

with the alcohol reform bill being debated in parliament last week, and the law commission publishing its report earlier this year, i thought it might be a good time to talk about the drinking culture in nz.

i come to it from the perspective of someone who doesn't drink any alcohol at all. and someone who really doesn't like to be around people who have been drinking a lot. in fact, being near drunk people makes me feel really uncomfortable, mostly because of the lack of control & unpredictability of their behaviour. also, i hate the smell of beer & wine.

because of my own beliefs, i avoid going to pubs. i don't stay long at functions where i know significant amounts of alcohol will be consumed. and while i don't have a problem with doing this, it's not often realised that in our current culture, this can exclude me from a number of things.

i assert myself where i can. for example, at work they know that if they want me to be at any social function, then they better not hold it in a pub. i've had the "but you don't have to drink" line, which is about as useful as the "just take the ham out of the sandwich & eat it" line, but i've stuck to my principles on this one. i'm lucky enough to work in a place where they value my presence, so they work around this. often, we'll have dinner at a restaurant, then those who want to go to a pub will do so & i'll happily head off home, feeling that i've been able to participate on my own terms & also feeling valued as a person.

i've also been very firm with the NGO's where i volunteer. one in particular was in the habit of holding the AGM in a pub, to which i said "that's fine, but if you hold it in a pub, i won't be there". again, i've been lucky enough that they value my presence enough to hold AGMs elsewhere. but i was surprised to be thanked by two other board members who were also uncomfortable with going to a pub but didn't feel able to say anything about it.

and i can imagine that it might be the same with people who have drinking problems that they are trying to work their way through. i'm sure these people would find it equally uncomfortable, as would people of other faiths & some people of no particular faith.

which is not to say that i've never compromised. i did do the back benches thing, mostly because i thought the positives outweighed the negative - it was more important to get a message across than to fuss about the setting. but things like the "drinking liberally" meetings feel quite exclusionary to me, as do any number of occasions where people suggest going to the pub for something & i'm not in a position to assert myself, or i'm not in a crowd who would care even if i chose to assert myself.

i know there will be many people who'll say "suck it up, this our culture & you're in our country so you'll just have to adjust". to which i say "this is my country & i have as much right to determine what our culture will be & how it will develop as you do". but more than that, we know we have a problem with the drinking culture, we know the social & economic harm that is being caused by excess alcohol consumption. the reason we have strong (but often misguided) advertising campaigns in an attempt to change that culture is because we know it's destructive.

so i'm just throwing another factor in the mix. that factor being that when you organise your social or business events around drinking & alcohol, you are going to exclude some people. and it's not just us "touchy, fussy" muslim people, but many other types of people as well. a lot of these people won't be able to speak out against it, because the peer pressure is very strong & they find it hard to fight against. i find it easier because most people already think i'm weird or very different anyway, and i've gone past caring what other people think.

26 comments:

Carol said...

I do understand that drinking culture could be difficult for many people. I grew up around alcohol, and used to drink in my younger days. But, when living in London, I gradually went off it (without being that aware at the time that it was happening). I guess alcohol triggered one to many migraines, and it developed negative associations for me.

I have since had no desire for it, and haven't had a drink of alcohol for 2-3 decades. At first I did notice that my not drinking at work social occasions, seemed to make some people uncomfortable. They'd assume I had never drunk alcohol & said things like, "Oh, you don't know what you're missing." and "Why don't you just have one drink.... go on!"

I decided that, for workmates, alcohol signalled a shift from work to relax mode.

As I've got older, and after I returned to NZ, I haven't really noticed that much of a reaction from people. Many women I know seem to not drink so much as they've got older. It may be the people I socialise with. But, at work dos, people still seem to organise the alcohol before anything else, and often there's not enough non-alcoholic drinks.

I am, however, VERY happy that pubs and other drinking/socialising places no longer are thick with cigarette smoke.

But I think in NZ, too, socialising means alcohol to many people. I enjoy socialising with people (and sometimes dancing) without drinking alcohol, so I'm not sure why so many other people need the booze.

Peer Review said...

"in fact, being near drunk people makes me feel really uncomfortable, mostly because of the lack of control & unpredictability of their behaviour. also, i hate the smell of beer & wine".

Funny that, I feel the same way around muslims ...makes me really uncomfortable, especially the self righteous attention seeking ones.

Brett Dale said...

I cant stand the drinking culture in NZ, I also cant stand how you have to explain to other people why you dont drink, like there is something wrong with you.

Beleive me it will never change.

A Nonny Moose said...

And Peer Review banned/deleted in 3...2...1...

Take your discriminatory ass elsewhere, jerk.

kimode said...

I'm currently struggling with my reaction to the comments of Peer Review.

As the branch president of a committee, I appreciate your comments anjum. Although we do not have our meetings at a pub or similar venue, there is wine available for those who want it. Your post has reminded me to be more conscious of those who prefer not to drink, and I am in a position to lead by example in case there are those who do not feel comfortable around the drinking of others (ie if she's not doing it, it's OK for me not to as well...)

Thank you for this post.

Lindsay Mitchell said...

"...we know we have a problem with the drinking culture, we know the social & economic harm that is being caused by excess alcohol consumption..."

Excess. Which contradicts your opening gambit (that it is the drinking, not how we're drinking.)

stargazer said...

i don't know ANM, normally i'd hit the delete button but i'm just tempted to leave this one up for sheer unoriginality & stupidity - it's good for a laugh. really, peer review, i'd ask you try harder except that i will delete any further attempt, so it would be a waste of your time.

thanx for your comments everyone else - this is actually a much more positive response than i'd expected :)

kimmode, i don't expect people to not drink at all & still go to functions where alcohol is being served. i know a lot of muslims (and possibly others) don't feel comfortable with that. for me, it's a matter of context. if know it's going to be just a couple of drinks with dinner at a restaurant, or a short function, then i'm ready to accept that. it's more where drinking is the main purpose of the event (and for me, having an event in a pub comes into that category), then i'll stay away. and having a good range of non-alcoholic drinks is always a plus (lemon, lime & bitters is my current favourite!).

stargazer said...

you missed the point lindsay - the title is about my personal attitude towards alcohol and social events. the point of raising the drinking culture was just to show that it's a point of view that others may want to consider, given the issues we have with alcohol consumption in this country. sorry if that wasn't clear.

Carol said...

I can see how the purpose of pubs focuses on alcohol as that seems to be their origial intent. But when I go to pubs these days, I see the main point of going as socialising. But it also depends on the pub. Some just seem like booze barns, and others provide a range of activities, including meals.

nznative said...

Our drinking culture is one of excess .......

Full of mile-stones like a yard-glass, full of euphanisims to disguise the excess.

Advertised and marketed so we think we need it to "export ourselves" to that fun place where we are popular and witty.

Its the number 1 drug and it is pushed at us like no other.

But the powers that be, and the producers, and advertisers, and retailers would rather we not think of it is a strong and sometimes dangerous drug.

Because drugs and druggies are bad ......... ya know ?.

Have a drink and be one of us ...........

Lucy said...

it's more where drinking is the main purpose of the event (and for me, having an event in a pub comes into that category), then i'll stay away. and having a good range of non-alcoholic drinks is always a plus (lemon, lime & bitters is my current favourite!).

I'm interested to hear this, as I've been to a lot of meetings in pubs and never considered it a message that drinking was the purpose of the evening; rather, that a pub was a large, indoor space where for the purchase of a few drinks, alcoholic or not, a group of people could hang out for some time. Moreover, it really depends on the pub; there are pubs I would never ever ever hold a meeting in, because people do go there to get drunk and watch the footy, but others where that's not the norm at all.

The main exclusionary issue I've always worried about with pubs is under-18s (for Young Labour functions). The trouble there is that restaurants can be expensive, and it's much, much cheaper for everyone to have one drink (which was often non-alcoholic for lots of us!) than a meal. Coffee shops are available during the day, but often not in the evening. And often no-one has a home that's suitable for having meetings in. I think you do need to consider those issues - pubs really aren't just picked for the availability of alcohol.

PartyPooper said...

Hate to mention it but the bitters in "lemon, lime, and bitters" has alcohol in it - about 44%. Of course only a dash is used in the drink so you're approaching homeopathic levels, but I know for many that's not the point when it comes to avoiding alcohol.

I also hate pubs - especially for meetings - because they're usually too noisy for me to hear conversation easily. It would never occur to me to schedule a work meeting at a pub!

Scuba Nurse said...

I love hearing the range of opinions around alcohol. Thanks anjum. I have never had to deal with the oft mentioned "peer pressure" until I started working in corporate. Medicine has enough recovering alcoholics and people who choose not to drink that no one ever batted an eye.
I drink outside of work but prefer not to have much (if any) while at work functions.
Recently I actually had a woman get quite screechy and accusatory about my not wanting a drink and when she ordered me one I told her I still wouldn't drink it.
A very uncomfortable moment.
I realized later that she drank large amounts and was a very badly behaved drunk. The last thing she wanted was a sober witness- god forbid she should just slow down!!
Thanks again.

A Nonny Moose said...

Party: There is a non-alcoholic version of LLB available. I believe Bundaberg make it.

nznative: Please stick to the topic. It is about people who are dealing with being non-drinkers in a drinking culture. Also, essentialist statements that equate all drinkers to drug addicts and those people being bad are overly judgmental and not helpful to the dialect.

Also, thanks for the timely reminder, especially this close to Christmas, with the non-drinkers around me. I'll be more cogniscent organizing things.

Alana said...

I am at this very moment organising an end of year function. Will there be alcohol involved? Yes there will! After all the other stuff and quite separate to enable people who don't want any part of it to toddle off home in happy sobriety.

I used to be a fairly heavy drinker but after a traumatic incident which involved alcohol I was quite resistant to drinking. I'm actually really happy that I am now in the position to be able to enjoy a few drinks again but at the same time I'm still conscious that plenty of other people (like me previously) have no desire to drink or be around people that are doing so.

stargazer said...

lucy, believe me i've given it a lot of thought - how could i avoid it growing up in a country like this? and having thought about, pubs are not places i want to be, no matter how "classy" or whatever they might be. if the primary purpose of the venue is the sale of alcohol, i don't want to be going there. we've never had problems organising labour party meetings here - we use the trade union centre, church halls, community centres; all available at low or no cost. a gold coin donation will usually cover it.

ANM, yup, that's the brand i buy & i've checked the ingredients. i'm sure there's no alcohol.

Muerk said...

I'm a teetotal because I've made a religious commitment to be. (www.pioneertotal.ie) I'm impressed and pleased that people are prepared to accomodate you and hold their meetings away from pubs. I think it's a good move especially given the abuse of alcohol in NZ.

I think we are too blase about drinking to excess and we do associate alcohol with socialising and fun.

It would be great if organisations made a commitment to not encourage alcohol at official functions, eg. avoid pubs for meetings. There's just such a huge expectation that celebration here involves alcohol. It must be terribly hard for recovered alcoholics.

Boganette said...

Great post Anjum. Thank-you so much for doing it. It's had a big impact on me. I have never thought about people who don't drink. I know that sounds terrible - and I think it is terrible! I suppose because my friends and I are all drinkers and my industry is known for being full of really big drinkers I have just never really considered the feelings of people who don't drink. I suppose also because I don't think I know anyone who doesn't drink. Your post is a massive eye-opener and I'm really glad I read it. It actually reminds me quite a bit of when I quit smoking and met one of my friends and she sat outside on a freezing day and I sat with her out there just so she could smoke. When I was a smoker (which to be fair - I'm in the relapse stage right now) I totally expected people to sit outside with me while I smoked - no matter the weather or how crowded it was, or how they probably didn't want to be around a bunch of smokers. I saw it as "hey, I HAVE to smoke, so you should work around me". Terrible I know. Anyway I'm going to have a really big think about this and consider how I can be less exclusionary to people who don't drink. And just open my eyes a bit more to see if I'm making life difficult for people around me who don't drink. Thanks again.

Mikaere Curtis said...

i know there will be many people who'll say "suck it up, this our culture & you're in our country so you'll just have to adjust". to which i say "this is my country & i have as much right to determine what our culture will be & how it will develop as you do".
It depends what you are proposing. If you are saying that because you don't drink, then all social events that you attend need to be alcohol-free, then I suspect you won't gain much traction. If you a saying that non-drinkers should not be made to feel unwelcome, then I think that is a postive development within our drinking culture. Me, a drinker, I don't have a problem with people who choose not to drink, and can always offer an alternative. Mind you, offering a drink is considered to be a sign of hospitality, not an attempt at coercion.

As for holding meetings in pub - what kind of meeting ? If it is a meeting that is focused on business (as in the business of the organisation), then I'd rather not be distracted by the noise of a pub. Easier to hold the meeting somewhere conducive, and go elsewhere for drinks afterwards. For social meetings, care could be taken to choose a venue that is suitable to the temperment of the group e.g. not too loud for talking etc.

It's not clear in your post - are you OK with people having alcohol with dinner (either social or for some kind of organisation event) ?

but more than that, we know we have a problem with the drinking culture, we know the social & economic harm that is being caused by excess alcohol consumption. the reason we have strong (but often misguided) advertising campaigns in an attempt to change that culture is because we know it's destructive.

The elephant in the room is our draconian legislation around alternative recreational substances. Sure, alcohol causes problems, and these need to be addressed. However, as long as it is the SINGLE recreation substance, it is going to be abused. Instead, we need legalise personal use of other substances, particularly the ones that are known to have lower health effects, and in particular those that can demonstrably reduce the propensity for violence (e.g. cannabis, ecstacy)

Matthew said...

Some random thoughts...

I've never drunk alcohol, and one thing for me is not a feeling of exclusion, or not being able to fit in, but rather an inability to take open pride in my non-drinkiness. In a sense, when I'm around people who feel the need to drink, I actually feel depressed - it seems like a very boxed in, inauthentic life to me, but it's not a view I generally feel able to express. This is mostly due to a feeling of that it's the proper thing to keep one's "crazy" views to themselves (crazy being not the typical).

I always wonder if I were around more people who choose not to drink, and feel a similar thing to me, that we might speak out a bit more, not just to the acceptability of not drinking, but to the positive value of not drinking, and encourage others to consider the view that maybe we're not the one missing out - leading to a sort of snowball effect.

As it stands, I feel not drinking lacks the needed "coming-togetherness" (because it's the sort of thing one ought to keep to themselves, and not "push" on others )

Muerk said...

"I always wonder if I were around more people who choose not to drink, and feel a similar thing to me, that we might speak out a bit more, not just to the acceptability of not drinking, but to the positive value of not drinking, and encourage others to consider the view that maybe we're not the one missing out - leading to a sort of snowball effect."

That's one of the reasons why people who are a member of the Pioneer Total Abstainence Association always wear a little badge. It's a quiet symbol that we are Pioneers and that we are teetotal. It isn't in your face, it's just there.

stargazer said...

mikaere, i believe i've answered your questions in my comment of 16/11, 9.04pm, in terms of how much i'm prepared to compromise.

as to your last paragraph, i don't want to be around people who are high on drugs any more than i'd want to be around drunk people. i certainly wouldn't attend any event where i knew drugs were being taken, even if they were legalised. i guess the reason i'm prepared to make some compromise on alcohol is because i'd be shutting myself out of pretty much everything if i didn't.

Mikaere Curtis said...

Thanks for pointing out your comment, it did answer my question.

I grok the idea that you don't like being around intoxicated people, and, by extension, places where people go to be intoxicated.

Your comments seem to indicate that you consider recreational substance use as a one way trip to intoxication. It's not always the case.

For example, I live near Kingsland, and on a Sunday afternoon you can spend a very pleasant time having a couple of wines and some snacks at the local Macs Brewbar. They have a DJ playing nice tunes (not too loudly) and it is quite convivial. Yet you say you wouldn't attend because some/most people there would be having a few quiet drinks ? I really don't understand why you would take that position.

Sure, the same bar at midnight on a Friday or Saturday is noisy with a lot of drinking, and I completely get why you wouldn't enjoy it.

The same goes for other recreational substances. Not everyone who uses these does so to the point of intoxication, and ruling out attending a social gathering based on what chemicals are in someone's bloodstream - vs whether they are pleasant company - seems prejudicial.

stargazer said...

mikaeere, i wouldn't attend because the primary purpose of the place is the sale of alcohol. i'm not interested in the intentions of the people who are there or what time of day they are there. i take that position because i disagree with the consumption of alcohol. and i do go to events in other places where i know people are going to have a couple of drinks, as i've said previously, as a compromise to allow me to function in the society in which i live.

as for other drugs, i'm not in any position to judge what they've taken, how much they've taken, nor what effect it will have on their behaviour. it's not like i have some supernatural sense that will let me know in advance how pleasant they are going to be. i can only go by what i know, and if i know in advance that people will be taking recreational drugs at an event, i won't be attending. also, if i don't agree with drug-use why would i go to places where it's happening? i'm not stopping anyone else from doing anything, just keeping myself away from something i disagree with.

katy said...

I recently spent time in some countries where most people are Muslim and I really enjoyed the fact that there was a vibrant nightlife that seemed to be alcohol-free. What I didn't enjoy was that in these places everyone seemed to smoke; every taxi experience I had (and there were a few) involved the driver smoking. I thought I was relaxed about being around smokers but I guess I had forgotten what it is like to be in confined spaces with smokers.

Random Lurker said...

Although I do drink, I keep it to the rare occasion. I used to feel mildly uncomfortable about refusing to drink when I was with one or more others who were, but recently I joined a gym, which is a great excuse to not drink for an atheist like me.