Partly it's a generational thing, I suspect, and I'd be interested in readers' views. In your household, and in those of your broader acquaintance, who takes responsibility for:
- Organising any holiday away from home
- Organising any holiday activities if staying at home
- Buying the Xmas presents
- Cooking for special events like Xmas Day, New Year's Eve parties, etc
- Cleaning up before and after guests come around
- Organising any special purchases you need for your household in the summer sales
- Ensuring children/pets have sufficient care, e.g. holiday programmes, cattery, etc
My observation of the women in my life is that this imbalance in holiday labour is not a re-balancing from less work done during the year to allow for the holiday, e.g. the man paid for the holiday, presents etc, through his paid labour so he has contributed sufficiently in that way. I can't think of a single woman I know who doesn't contribute significantly to her household through her labour, paid and unpaid, to the extent that extra holiday work isn't an unfair additional burden.
What do you think?
13 comments:
In my opinion, you are completely right, Julie. The motivations for women doing all the work may be completely different, however, down the generations. In women of my mother's generation, and before, the expectation was there from society that women would do it all. Nowadays, it would seem to me that women expect themselves to do it all. Some may say it's simply an extension of their expectations of themselves around work, around childraising, around their place in the world. Now, from what I have observed, as well as expectations of themselves, women seem to have very low expectations of their menfolk's ability to do stuff. Even if their menfolk wanted to do much. Is that about women being controlling? Is that about women fulfilling their own needs through doing everything because they see that as being empowering? I suspect many women have many different motivations. In my very honest opinion? Women need to stop doing so much stuff and let other people do for them. They need to stop thinking that they are empowering themselves by doing it all, when really what they are doing is exhausting themselves. And women certainly need to stop infantilising men.
As a female/female couple, I'm not sure how useful this is but I'm sharing some of the reasoning. I'm the main - but by no means sole - income earner, in terms of both income and paid hours.
1. Organising any holiday away from home - me, by mutual agreement. We discuss basic parameters together, but I both enjoy sorting out the details and am more used to it.
2. Organising any holiday activities if staying at home - both of us, the push probably comes mostly from me but not noticeably.
3. Buying the Xmas presents - for those we genuinely give as a couple (as opposed to just writing names on ones to 1 person's family etc), we shop together but I tend to take the lead.
4. Cooking for special events like Xmas Day, New Year's Eve parties, etc - mostly but by no means exclusively me. If I do the cooking she'll probably bake something. Again, mutual agreement - I enjoy cooking more.
5. Cleaning up before and after guests come around - her! I will do some assigned tasks but the organising and the bulk of the work falls on her. Mostly because I'm crap at cleaning and hate it (which is partly a minor disability issue, but not all). I feel guilty about this sometimes...
6. Organising any special purchases you need for your household in the summer sales - we shop together but the thinking of and organising is mostly me. Probably because a lot of it is kitchen stuff which I tend to notice and care about more.
7. Ensuring children/pets have sufficient care, e.g. holiday programmes, cattery, etc - usually I stress about it for months and then she organises it at the last minute. This might be the one that needs working on.
I don't claim we've got it all right, because we really haven't, and her interpretation might be quite different to mine. But as far as possible I think we try and divide things by each other's strengths and preferences.
Though the range of people I know is somewhat limited demographically, I think that as for us the splitting of holiday duties does follow a similar pattern to the rest of the year, and the holidays just accentuate that.
@Jackie Clark - In my day job I set up and manage a lot of different systems. If I had to pass one on to or share one with someone else I'd freak out and be terrified, not because of anything to do with their competence, but because those systems have been designed for one person, and specifically me and how I think. (I am not claiming this is ideal, btw.)
Our household is set up with a clear but I like to think equitable division of labour in some areas, and collaboration in others, to the point where we actually have a wiki where we list what we need to do/buy. But if a household has been set up to be run by one person, and that has happened perhaps for decades, I fully understand why handing part of it over may be difficult, and it may not be about infantilising men (though I'm sure in some situations it is).
Late 20s couple, both professional, I work longer hours and earn more.
In terms of holidays:
1- mostly me, though I will delegate defined tasks such as booking accommodation
2- probably about equal
3- mostly me
4- I plan menus and organise groceries but we'd probably cook together mostly
5- both of us
6- him
7- NA
But I think the omission of various stereotypically male tasks could skew the way the balance of labour appears. I don't pack the car (or drive it!), I'm a helper only when it comes to tent setting up, barbecuing, bike cleaning, and that sort of thing. Whether that's a positive division of household labour or not, he definitely deserves some credit for those jobs.
Kate C
What an interesting post with even more interesting answers.
My partner and have discussed some of our friends home duties and the imbalance as not just being Hard work for the woman, but limiting and isolating on the man. Coordinating life and home is a way of bonding with 'your territory', and we both feel that it's really important that we both participate, and those that don't are missing out.
1 & 2) Organizing the holiday, and holiday activities; we choose it together but generally the person who selected the winning idea does the research and the other gets to vote on things.
3) buying presents (this is for b days too): we get and pay for our own family and friends, but sign each others cards. We discuss ideas together but the action is taken that way.
4) cooking: generally me, as I tend to take a days leave before holidays and loose one after because I enjoy the prep time.
5) cleaning: my partner is better at this after as I like a sleep in and he is an early riser. But I help...
6) sale shopping is done together since it is generally seen as fun. At a push my partner would do it since I am not a shopper!
7) no pets or kids... The secret to our success??
Ps we both work on jobs involving travel away from home 40% of the time, my hours are better, but I fatigue more easily. Pay is not so far off similar that I would consider either of us the "primary breadwinner" but he has better earning potential.
1. Him because the only place we go is to his family's place
2. Mostly him
3. Me
4. Me
5. Me (he will help if asked)
6. We don't usually buy anything, we're on a very limited budget
7. Not really applicable
We're a late-thirties-early forties couple with one schoolchild; partner studies fulltime and works 15hrs per week, I'm just at home so far.
Veg
Mid to late 30s m/f DINKS.
1. If travel holiday (ie: overseas) we agree on places/activities, but I do most of the research/booking. Because I like to, and I'm the more financially organized. If xmas holiday away, usually him because I work right up to xmas, and he gets it off.
2. Equal, with slight bent towards him, because he can do more grocery shopping than me at Xmas.
3. Xmas present shopping equal.
4. Cooking equal. We have our specialties eg: I'm good at the meat, he's good at the desserts. I do veggies, he does sauces/gravies.
5. Cleaning before: him. I do not like cleaning. After: equal, though he washes the dishes after big dinner parties, with guests helping.
6. Special purchases in summer sales: clothing/entertainment, me - I have to push him to "social" shop because he doesn't like it that much. Appliances, him - because I don't like making big purchases (a thing I have against HP/loans/debt).
7. Pet care - me. I organize cattery for extended trips. Though whenever its shorter trips and we have a friend cat sitting, it's whoever remembers to call friend first (we actually have system with friends for cat sitting, so it pretty much runs itself)
Anna, what you say has validity, I think, in that as human beings we tend to play to our strengths, which is good. As a teacher in a team of 3, I do what I'm strongest at, and so on. However, I have always believed that people only get good at stuff by doing (see what a kindergarten teacher I am), and, for example, if you are in a job where only you know how to do things, then my philosophy would extend to making sure that someone else can do your job if you are away/incapacitated/leave. As I see it, that's a lot of pressure on one person to do it all yourself. I expect most couples regardless of gender do things in their relationship that play on their strengths. My point is that sometimes one person takes on more than their share. Some of us are better looker-afterers than others, and we look after each other in different ways. I also have a marriage where I do most everything. I am the sole earner, I do the shopping and the cooking. What cleaning gets done, I mostly do. That has to do with him once having leukemia and having major side effects and being limited in his physical capabilities. I am guilty of possibly doing more than I need to, but when someone you love almost dies, you kind of end up trying to make their lives easier. What ends up happening, however, is learned helplessness sets in. I have seen it in so many couples - especially m/f. And you - ie me - end up with the majority of chores on your plate.
That is a really interesting point about how illness or debilitation affects a relationship, and the measure of workload.
My partner was bed-bound last summer for three months and I was described as a "bitch" by one of the charming nurses at the hospital (don’t make comments just around the corner) because she overheard a conversation with my partner.
"Can you pour me a glass of water?"
"The bottle is right there, and your arms are not the problem, you can reach" was my true reply.
What he wanted was my care and attention, and I gave it to him, but not in the form of taking away his independence, or doing something he was capable of doing.
Rubbing his sore feet and having cuddles were far more functional in my opinion.
He taught me a lot of this when we first met. He wouldn’t tolerate “I cant’s” and we would do all the stuff we wanted to do while I was still recovering from my car accident, just in smaller amounts of time.”
And Chores were done, by me, but in small parts, with rest in-between.
I never had to lose my independence (or my much loved flat) and each day felt like an accomplishment, I hope he felt the same.
Sorry, totally forgot to paste my own answers in!
1. Either, usually one or other, probably more often the man.
2. Both, probably more often me.
3. Mostly me, after a disastrous year when I said he could buy all his family ones and I would do mine and we ended up at the shops late on Xmas Eve. This year we made food for everyone except the kids; he made lemon cordial and I did baking and wrapped it all up. We each got some of the kid presents.
4. Usually whoever has initiated the event, doing the main cooking with the other one maybe doing dessert or nibbles, or organising the drinks.
5. Historically this has been mainly me and the source of some contention, but the balance has changed in the last few months in particular to be more even. This is partly because I have made a conscious decision to not start cleaning up until a few hours before, and not doing all of it immediately afterwards. This allows space and time for my partner to do his bit, instead of me rushing around getting irate, which he can tell, and then he gets contrary and decides to read a book or something. Even after over ten years together I'm still learning!
6. Either, whoever thinks we need something usually.
7. Probably more me. My partner does do it, but as with the cleaning, I tend to get in first. Hmmm, maybe there's a learning there.
Thanks for your answers everyone.
I think the discussion about health raises good points too. I suspect if either my partner or I had a manual physical job that wore us out we probably wouldn't have much energy left for household stuff. Conversely that person might be fitter and thus better placed to do it.
Ok, baby has rolled off mat, better go rescue him before he goobers all over the door catalogue.
since this is really a post about relationships, it kind of misses out sole parents, the majority of whom are women and most of them have to do all of this stuff on their own. i bring it up because sometimes people don't realise how much more tiring it is when you're parenting on your own. which is why i react so badly to the use of the word "bludger" in connection with sole parents.
ok, as you were.
anna caro you are my goddess. A wiki for organising the house is a perfect idea.
1. holiday away: she, mostly. Most holiday ideas come from her. When it's my family I do some of it, but she books tickets and does itinery stuff. But then, I'm a "go there and lie on the beach' person, she's a "27 activities in 3 days. GO!" person. I would have spent a whole day at Te Papa while she demanded we visited that and about 5 other places. I think we spent more time travelling between locations than at them.
2. holiday activities: mostly her. As above. Often she does stuff, I stay home and play in my shed.
3. Buying presents: mostly her, because I have pruned it down to just my mum and I buy that one. The pile of presents she gives... she does it all.
4. Cooking for guests: mostly her, but I do sometimes and we usually discuss menus and shop together.
5. Cleaning up: she's in charge, except when I am. I finish work earlier so usually start stuff off.
6. special purchases: sales? You must be kidding. Op shops never have sales :) Other stuff we discuss, which means we both do research and then try to work out the best buy. Small stuff either of us buys, possibly more likely to be me. One pattern we have is that she buys small groceries, I buy big ones. I'll spend $200 in one go, she'll spent $50 each time. I'm the one who bikes home with the 25kg sack of flour and makes sure we always have the basics. It works out about the same dollar amount I think, but obviously I spend less time and effort shopping.
7. no children or pets for us.
It's biased though: she has lots of friends where I have few; she's in touch with people from high school and visits them/they visit her; she goes out a lot, I stay home a lot; she eats a wildly diverse diet, I have lived on soup for months. So for any kind of social work that happens, most of it's to do with people I wouldn't recognise if they turned up on our doorstep.
One source of tension is the expectation that because we're a couple we will always both attend social events. I know she's lost "friends" because I won't attend their events after the first one I went to sucked. This does skew the context of "who organises holidays" because a lot of the time the organisation revolves around people I would not see if I had the choice, so expecting me to put equal work into organising for them requires something other than "everything should be equal" as a justification.
anna caro, you are my goddess. A wiki is the perfect tool for that.
1. holiday away: she, mostly. She is more social so most holidays come from her. When it's my family I do some of it, but she books tickets and does itinery stuff. But then, I'm a "go there and lie on the beach' person, she's a "27 activities in 3 hours. GO!" person.
2. holiday activities: mostly her. As above. Often she does stuff, I stay home.
3. Buying presents: mostly her, because I have pruned it down to just my mum and I buy that one. The pile of presents she gives... she does it all.
4. Cooking: mostly her, but I do sometimes and we usually discuss menus and shop together.
5. Cleaning up: she's in charge, except when I am. I finish work earlier so tend to start stuff off.
6. special purchases: sales? You must be kidding. Op shops never have sales. Other stuff we argue about, which I think means we both do research and then try to work out the best buy. Small stuff either of us buys, possibly more likely to be me. One pattern we have is that she buys small groceries, I buy big ones. I'll spend $100 in one go, she'll spent $50 twice. I'm the one who bikes home with the 25kg sack of flour. It works out about the same dollar amount I think.
7. no children or pets for us.
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