Friday, 17 June 2011

i'm sorry

i've been taking my time about this because i wanted to get it right, and i wanted to process all the things that have been said. we've had a lot of anger expressed at the blog over the last week, and i acknowledge it is justified. for myself, i apologise for not being a better moderator. i saw things that i plainly knew were wrong and did nothing, and its inexcusable.

for those who felt hurt and angered by that, i do understand. i understand about there not being many safe places on the internet where you can feel able to participate. i know that feeling myself, and can't even begin to number the places i never visit because of the bigotry and hatred directed towards people like myself. the places i don't visit because i don't want to be looking at certain things or hearing certain arguments.

so when you come across a place that looks to be somewhere you can participate and be yourself, it is a big deal. a place where you don't have to find constant battles just for the right to be. and when that place lets you down, i understand how frustrating it can be.

the thing is that it also takes a lot of courage to fight back, to tell people what they've done wrong & where they need to change. i also know how that feels, because i've looked at sites where i would have thought i would be comfortable, that are run by people who are progressive in a lot of areas. and then they aren't, in a way that is more than just careless. there is no way that i would have the energy or the strength, knowing the strong possibilty of a hostile or defensive reaction to my concerns, to even take the trouble to speak out.

so to those who we hurt by our actions and inactions, who came back here and spoke up, thank you for doing so. thank you for persisting and for clarifying, and in the end, for your acceptance of julie's apology. i can only hope that you will also accept mine. i also want to acknowledge that my first attempt at an apology was lacking. i should have taken the time to listen, instead being defensive.

as for preventing this sort of thing in the future & making changes, we are working on that and i can only ask for your indulgence as we work through the process. i am going to be away from the internet this weekend, so won't be able to respond to any comments on this post. possibly not a good time to be posting it, but i didn't want to leave it too long.


Anonymous said...

Fuck you. This feminist is never coming back. Thanks for upsetting me and others this week, you're as bad as the men.

Psycho Milt said...

OMG - surely not that bad?

notafeminist said...

It's hard to take this apology seriously when this blog's poor and transphobia-enabling moderation is the reason for some people regarding this as an unsafe space, when meanwhile you have gone to QoT's blog and posted about how she needs to shut up and let the trans* people fend for themselves in the unsafe space that YOUR blog has created. If you agree that you are wrong about the moderation and how trans* people were treated, then you will also need to apologise for the comments you left on QoT's blog.

Anonymous said...

I thought V was treated badly when she posted on this blog a few months back and I was disgusted.

Scar said...

A well worded apology; was it prompted by the responses to the stuff that Notafeminist has raised?

However, you might want to throw an apology in the direction of the trans person you misgendered and accused of being another person while you're at it (re: Boganette's blog post on V).

Acid Queen said...

I was really disgusted by your comparing QoT to Winston Peters on your blog. That makes it very hard to take this apology seriously. Particularly since so much of your writing comes from you assuring trans people that you "understand" them. I've got to say, when somebody says they understand but then acts in a way that betrays a lack of understanding, well, that declaration of understanding doesn't go very far.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
stargazer said...

thanx everyone for your responses. anonymous, i'm sorry you feel that way. PM, yes it was that bad - unless you're responding to anon, in which case it's between you & that person.

notafeminist, that's not what i said. i don't expect trans* people to fend for themselves, but i don't expect their voices to be drowned out either. i don't believe QoT helped with what she was doing here, and i stand by that. i won't be visiting QoT's blog because it doesn't feel like a safe space for me, as i've already clearly said over there. i've not been back to read any responses to my comments there, and i certainly don't apologise for making them. i've left a comment at hoydens explaining my views in more detail. you'll find a comment from QoT later in that thread.

scar, thank you for that, and no it wasn't. it was prompted by what happened here and my own lack of action. i had tried apologising once, then i listened to the posters here who explained why it wasn't good enough, so am doing it again. as regards V, on boganette's blog i said that i had suspicisons, but am happy to accept that i was wrong and apologise for that.

acid queen, i did NOT compare QoT to mr peters & it's exactly that kind of misrepresentation that was one of the things that upset me on her blog. i said my reaction to dealing with the stuff over there reminded me of the reaction i had back in 2005 ie of something that needed to be done but that i did not enjoy doing. that was the extent of it, and i find it unacceptable for you to infer anything more from those statements.

stargazer said...

sorry, second anon. i'm not going allow accusations of that nature to stand on this blog. we've deleted accusations before, and for all that you might think they are true, we have no way to verify them so will not be allowing them to stand.

Maia said...

Moderation hat on:

I've deleted a couple more comments that were related to the anonymous post that stargazer deleted. I don't think oblique discussions of deleted comments are appropriate. I don't want to re-open that line of discussion. Also this is a public discussion and should be accessible to those participating, not a private conversation that only a few understand.

UPDATE: A reminder that discussion about moderation should be taken to e-mail. You can contact me on

Please stay on topic.

Acid Queen said...

You see stargazer, this is what I'm talking about. You are apologising but you also accuse anybody with a different perspective on what you have written as misrepresenting you, and start telling people that what they do is "unacceptable". You don't really seem like you want to engage and learn, you seem like you simply want to end any criticism coming your way as quickly as possible.

I just can't see what you said to QoT and what you've said here as consistent. If you really are sorry for what you did, why are you so critical of her for pointing out what you did?

Psycho Milt said... will also need to apologise for the comments you left on QoT's blog.

Actually, one of Stargazer's comments at Ideologically Impure was so awesomely good it cries out for a link to it here.

Scar said...

I agree Milt!
Especially this part:

as for your apology, it’s means jackshit when you haven’t bothered to change the post.

Actually, on second thought, that stinks of hypocrisy doesn't it?

stargazer said...

no acid queen, i have not done that at all. i've accused people who misrepresent me of misrepresenting me. i clearly did not compare QoT to mr peters. so if you claim i said something which i've never said, and which i've even taken the trouble to clarify for you here, then i don't see that i have to treat that as someone who is merely "disagreeing" with me, and i certainly am not going to accept it. if you have a problem with what i've actually said, that's no problem. but i will not have words put into my mouth.

scar, i see absolutely no hypocrisy here.

Russell Brown said...

However, you might want to throw an apology in the direction of the trans person you misgendered and accused of being another person while you're at it

Loath as I am to get involved in this unpleasant business business, Scar, haven't you recently on this site:

(a) "Misgendered" someone (George)

(b) Baselessly accused someone of being another person. (Dan)

Perhaps, rather than demanding yet more apologies (which appear to me to be coming in clear good faith, and in some quantity), you could show the way by apologising yourself. It might help.

CJ said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
anthea said...

^mod hat^
CJ if you have been reading it should be clear that Scar is female, and whilst your phrasing may usually indicate vagueness, I'm sure you can appreciate that when discussing trans* issues/ referring to a trans woman, it can be far more problematic.

Feel free to repost with the correct pronoun.

CJ said...

Russell - agreed "scar" has been apologised to over and over on this blog, and has been less that gracious at accepting any apology. I think entitled would describe her attitude.

Scar said...

Hi Russel Brown,

Thanks for raising this issue.
If you pop over to my blog, you'll see an apology to Dan which I posted a few days ago.
As for misgendering George, I can't remember doing so. If you point out my error there, I'll be very happy to address it (on my blog, so as not to derail further on here).

As you can see, I'm quite capable of owning the mistakes I make and I rarely need prompting (especially from internetrandoms such as yourself).

CJ, I smiled when you described a trans woman as 'entitled' - thanks for that, hasn't been much of a day for smiles :-)

CJ said...

Scar, you're welcome, my aim is to amuse and entertain. I'm sure a trans woman can act as entitled as any other person.

Scar said...

You keep using that word.
I do not think it means what you think it means.

CJ said...

I’m sure I do know the meaning of “entitled”, just as I’m sure you do, just as I’m sure we both know that anyone can act “entitled” no matter who they are.

Scar said...

In other news, the word 'entitled' now means "Minorities asking majorities to apologise for their hurtful/harmful errors".
Now here's Suzie with the weather...

What's the quota on apologies anyway? Is there a ratio?
i.e. trans people get one apology for every ten cis fuckups?
At what point does it become entitled? When they have the audacity to ask that EVERY problematic statement gets addressed?

Anonymous said...

This endless spatting is so like the worst parts of high school. I used to love reading The Hand Mirror.


stargazer said...

ok, i'm almost ready to close comments on this thread. i'm not prepared to keep ending up in the same place, and cj, you're repetitive comments need to stop here.