Sigh...when will you realise that there's no "rape culture" out there...just outlaws who don't care a damn about Women and their rights and will rape to get their sexual satisfaction?
....and because they exist in-spite of your wishes and dreams that they don't its prudent to take precautions about what you do to lessen your chances of being assaulted by one of these scumbags.
And before the usual hysteria starts here I mean that in the sense of acknowledging causes...not victim blaming as it will no doubt be spun by some...
when will you realise that the majority of rapes are committed by people known to the victim, in the homes of friends and family. that they aren't "out there" but very close. they are people of trust, very normal, ordinary, everyday people brought in a culture that teaches them not to care about consent.
i think you will never realise, so please kindly get lost.
I know some men who have raped, or attempted rape. They probably don't think of it as rape. Comments like yours, SoO, just allow people to continue to comfortably think rape is something done by Others, not by them, not by their friends, not by their family. While SoO and others continue to deny rape culture exists, they continue to enable rapists' behaviour.
Which reminds me, they left out "men, if she won't take no for an answer, go to the Police, don't just pretend it never happened or that you must have wanted it after all".
There's no rape culture out there? The only way I can agree with that is to say that the rape culture is in here - inside us.
SoO - have you not listened or read any of these comments? How does a 11 year old girl take precautions against her stepfather? How does a married woman take precautions against her husband? How do trans-gender people take precautions against being themselves?
And just in case you missed the point, it is this: The victims should not have to change. The only people that need to change are the offenders.
And maybe it is a forelorn hope that it will actually happen, but why should that ever stop us from trying to make it happen.
I genuinely believe that this action will eventually succeed. There are so many things that were once considered acceptable, and where the victims were expected to just sit there and take it. But society changes.
You know what I find really exciting? Hopefully some time within my life I can look back and say "I was a part of the movement that made this happen".
The only cause of assault of any kind is that the person commits the assault. There is no such thing as provocation, only inability to control ones self.
They can feel aroused or angry or like committing some wrong. But the trick is to acknowledge that they are just feelings. You do not have to act on them. It's what well-rounded, healthy grown-ups do every day.
You know, when I was living as a male, I would have denied the existence of rape culture too. I would have said that only a handful of violent criminals commit rape.
But if I had thought about it at the time, I would have realised that rape culture is all around me. I would have remembered the story (proudly) told to me by an army lad about how he lost his virginity with an unconscious woman at a party who woke up when he was part way through the rape and he told her "Shhh, I'm almost done" when she told him to stop.
Th disturbing thing is that's not an uncommon story. I spoke to many men during my time as a male who told stories that were variations on that theme - and none of them thought there was anything wrong with it, that it was AMUSING that they had non-consensual sex with a woman.
Then I experienced it for myself after I transitioned; in the middle of a drunken hookup with a stone-cold sober male (who was supposed to be a friend), I asked him to stop after he started (painfully) penetrating me. He didn't, of course. He continued against my will until he was 'done'.
It makes me wonder just how many men don't stop when women say 'stop' or take 'no' as a 'yes'. It also makes me wonder how many of the men who did these things can justify in their heads what they have done and make it okay; "She was a slut anyway" or "She was totally up for it" or "She was playing hard to get". How many rapists out there don't even think that what they did was rape?
Because rapists are no just 'outlaws' and criminals; as it turns out they are guys you work with, your friends or even family members. They appear to be perfectly normal people, other than the fact they have raped women.
So yeah, I was once like Story of O. Once upon a time I didn't think there was a rape culture. But having thought about it and experienced it first hand, I know better.
And there it is...the hysterical strawman non argument I expected.
Yes most rapists are known to the victim...well duh...who said otherwise?But there are opportunist rapists too who take advantage of Women in vulnerable situations...one being when blind drunk and flirting in pubs and clubs with men and are commonly known as "rapebait" my bar manager brother informs me.
That some men can't resist satisfying their climactic urge for sexual release and over step the line does not validate the claim of a rape culture existing...If there really was an accepted rape culture why then do we have long established laws against rape and rapists treated with a level of disgust only a few notches below that of child-molesters?
Goodgravey....your points are valid but still mired in the pollyannaish delusion of gender feminism...rapists exist here and now in the reality we inhabit and to will fully blank that out to maintain a fluffy feminist world-view that doesn't stand up to scrutiny is morally deficient and down right irresponsible and dangerous.
I have made damn sure my daughters are well aware of the facts of life and their responsibilities for their own safety when out in the real world and I would expect any parent to do likewise if they truly cared for their children.
But there are opportunist rapists too who take advantage of Women in vulnerable situations...one being when blind drunk and flirting in pubs and clubs with men and are commonly known as "rapebait" my bar manager brother informs me.
It's kind of funny you can write this excellent description of how blasé a lot of men are about rape, and in the next sentence rule out the very idea of there being a "rape culture."
No....you have reda it wrong,there's a big difference.The "rapebait" observation, while bluntly crass,is just that,an observation of facts/ events.That's not an advocacy of the act of rape...just an acknowledgement that the Woman concerned is putting out signals that will attract male attention in general.....and that of the rapist who by definition doesn't respect the law or the Woman's rights.My Brother use the label too and he tells me its actually an expression of concern for the Woman's wellbeing....not as you are suggesting an evaluation of a potential victim for the observer himself.
Thing is, it's not really concern for a woman's wellbeing, is it? It's an acceptance that rape is just something that skanky chicks bring on themselves, and there's nothing much to be done about it. Which is only encouragement and justification for guys who really ought to stop what they're doing, but don't, and who tell themselves afterwards there's no way you could call that "rape." And which is why they call it "rape culture."
Hey, here's an idea; how about your brother shows a little host responsibility and does something about the potential RAPE happening before his very eyes instead of shaking his head while he goes on serving them alcohol and muttering under his breath "Those zany Rapebait, when will they learn?" Rape is a crime and he's being complicit by being aware of what is happening and doing nothing about it. If we DIDN'T live in a rape culture, he probably would do something about it instead of telling stories about it to his bro.
You know, maybe he could put a sign up in his bar saying "Don't rape my female patrons" or "If you come in here and get drunk, you might get raped" or "WARNING! Some of my patrons are rapists" or something to that effect?
O, here is some required reading before you make any further comments on this thread. please read the post and the pages it links to. a read of the comments would also be good for you. if you're not prepared to put you time in learning about this stuff, then please don't waste our time any further here.
PM & scar, thanx heaps for your comments. and i'm sorry to hear about your experiences, scar. i can only imagine how difficult that must have been for you.
Do we blame a nerdy kid for being a target for bullies. Do we say to him or her, if you didn't wear glasses you wouldn't get picked on. Don't play sports, because that will make you a target of bullies. Don't read because bullies pick on people who read.
Of course not because we recognize that bullying behaviour is the bully's problem rather than the nerds.
and O shows exactly how to ignore people's request and a huge sense of entitlement to continue commenting when you've been asked to stop, directly and twice in the post. your posts on my threads will be deleted. i'm not interested in putting up with your wilful ignorance and your blatant disrespect of this space. goodbye.
19 comments:
Sigh...when will you realise that there's no "rape culture" out there...just outlaws who don't care a damn about Women and their rights and will rape to get their sexual satisfaction?
....and because they exist in-spite of your wishes and dreams that they don't its prudent to take precautions about what you do to lessen your chances of being assaulted by one of these scumbags.
And before the usual hysteria starts here I mean that in the sense of acknowledging causes...not victim blaming as it will no doubt be spun by some...
when will you realise that the majority of rapes are committed by people known to the victim, in the homes of friends and family. that they aren't "out there" but very close. they are people of trust, very normal, ordinary, everyday people brought in a culture that teaches them not to care about consent.
i think you will never realise, so please kindly get lost.
I know some men who have raped, or attempted rape. They probably don't think of it as rape. Comments like yours, SoO, just allow people to continue to comfortably think rape is something done by Others, not by them, not by their friends, not by their family. While SoO and others continue to deny rape culture exists, they continue to enable rapists' behaviour.
Which reminds me, they left out "men, if she won't take no for an answer, go to the Police, don't just pretend it never happened or that you must have wanted it after all".
There's no rape culture out there? The only way I can agree with that is to say that the rape culture is in here - inside us.
SoO - have you not listened or read any of these comments? How does a 11 year old girl take precautions against her stepfather? How does a married woman take precautions against her husband? How do trans-gender people take precautions against being themselves?
And just in case you missed the point, it is this: The victims should not have to change. The only people that need to change are the offenders.
And maybe it is a forelorn hope that it will actually happen, but why should that ever stop us from trying to make it happen.
I genuinely believe that this action will eventually succeed. There are so many things that were once considered acceptable, and where the victims were expected to just sit there and take it. But society changes.
You know what I find really exciting? Hopefully some time within my life I can look back and say "I was a part of the movement that made this happen".
The only cause of assault of any kind is that the person commits the assault. There is no such thing as provocation, only inability to control ones self.
They can feel aroused or angry or like committing some wrong. But the trick is to acknowledge that they are just feelings. You do not have to act on them. It's what well-rounded, healthy grown-ups do every day.
***TRIGGER WARNING FOR RAPE***
You know, when I was living as a male, I would have denied the existence of rape culture too.
I would have said that only a handful of violent criminals commit rape.
But if I had thought about it at the time, I would have realised that rape culture is all around me. I would have remembered the story (proudly) told to me by an army lad about how he lost his virginity with an unconscious woman at a party who woke up when he was part way through the rape and he told her "Shhh, I'm almost done" when she told him to stop.
Th disturbing thing is that's not an uncommon story. I spoke to many men during my time as a male who told stories that were variations on that theme - and none of them thought there was anything wrong with it, that it was AMUSING that they had non-consensual sex with a woman.
Then I experienced it for myself after I transitioned; in the middle of a drunken hookup with a stone-cold sober male (who was supposed to be a friend), I asked him to stop after he started (painfully) penetrating me.
He didn't, of course. He continued against my will until he was 'done'.
It makes me wonder just how many men don't stop when women say 'stop' or take 'no' as a 'yes'. It also makes me wonder how many of the men who did these things can justify in their heads what they have done and make it okay; "She was a slut anyway" or "She was totally up for it" or "She was playing hard to get".
How many rapists out there don't even think that what they did was rape?
Because rapists are no just 'outlaws' and criminals; as it turns out they are guys you work with, your friends or even family members. They appear to be perfectly normal people, other than the fact they have raped women.
So yeah, I was once like Story of O. Once upon a time I didn't think there was a rape culture.
But having thought about it and experienced it first hand, I know better.
And there it is...the hysterical strawman non argument I expected.
Yes most rapists are known to the victim...well duh...who said otherwise?But there are opportunist rapists too who take advantage of Women in vulnerable situations...one being when blind drunk and flirting in pubs and clubs with men and are commonly known as "rapebait" my bar manager brother informs me.
That some men can't resist satisfying their climactic urge for sexual release and over step the line does not validate the claim of a rape culture existing...If there really was an accepted rape culture why then do we have long established laws against rape and rapists treated with a level of disgust only a few notches below that of child-molesters?
Goodgravey....your points are valid but still mired in the pollyannaish delusion of gender feminism...rapists exist here and now in the reality we inhabit and to will fully blank that out to maintain a fluffy feminist world-view that doesn't stand up to scrutiny is morally deficient and down right irresponsible and dangerous.
I have made damn sure my daughters are well aware of the facts of life and their responsibilities for their own safety when out in the real world and I would expect any parent to do likewise if they truly cared for their children.
But there are opportunist rapists too who take advantage of Women in vulnerable situations...one being when blind drunk and flirting in pubs and clubs with men and are commonly known as "rapebait" my bar manager brother informs me.
It's kind of funny you can write this excellent description of how blasé a lot of men are about rape, and in the next sentence rule out the very idea of there being a "rape culture."
No....you have reda it wrong,there's a big difference.The "rapebait" observation, while bluntly crass,is just that,an observation of facts/ events.That's not an advocacy of the act of rape...just an acknowledgement that the Woman concerned is putting out signals that will attract male attention in general.....and that of the rapist who by definition doesn't respect the law or the Woman's rights.My Brother use the label too and he tells me its actually an expression of concern for the Woman's wellbeing....not as you are suggesting an evaluation of a potential victim for the observer himself.
Thing is, it's not really concern for a woman's wellbeing, is it? It's an acceptance that rape is just something that skanky chicks bring on themselves, and there's nothing much to be done about it. Which is only encouragement and justification for guys who really ought to stop what they're doing, but don't, and who tell themselves afterwards there's no way you could call that "rape." And which is why they call it "rape culture."
Hey, here's an idea; how about your brother shows a little host responsibility and does something about the potential RAPE happening before his very eyes instead of shaking his head while he goes on serving them alcohol and muttering under his breath "Those zany Rapebait, when will they learn?"
Rape is a crime and he's being complicit by being aware of what is happening and doing nothing about it.
If we DIDN'T live in a rape culture, he probably would do something about it instead of telling stories about it to his bro.
You know, maybe he could put a sign up in his bar saying "Don't rape my female patrons" or "If you come in here and get drunk, you might get raped" or "WARNING! Some of my patrons are rapists" or something to that effect?
Seriously, when will you get a fucking clue?
O, here is some required reading before you make any further comments on this thread. please read the post and the pages it links to. a read of the comments would also be good for you. if you're not prepared to put you time in learning about this stuff, then please don't waste our time any further here.
PM & scar, thanx heaps for your comments. and i'm sorry to hear about your experiences, scar. i can only imagine how difficult that must have been for you.
"WARNING! Some of my patrons are rapists"
Pretty much every bar should have this warning sign.
Dealing with reality? Har har!
Get back to us when you have experienced rape for yourself.
Then we can talk 'reality'.
How about we change some words for O.
Do we blame a nerdy kid for being a target for bullies. Do we say to him or her, if you didn't wear glasses you wouldn't get picked on. Don't play sports, because that will make you a target of bullies. Don't read because bullies pick on people who read.
Of course not because we recognize that bullying behaviour is the bully's problem rather than the nerds.
Do we blame a nerdy kid for being a target for bullies
In all seriousness, I've met people who take this view. Like O, they class this as merely "dealing with reality."
and O shows exactly how to ignore people's request and a huge sense of entitlement to continue commenting when you've been asked to stop, directly and twice in the post. your posts on my threads will be deleted. i'm not interested in putting up with your wilful ignorance and your blatant disrespect of this space. goodbye.
In all seriousness, I've met people who take this view. Like O, they class this as merely "dealing with reality."
The funny thing is these are the same people who bitch and moan about PC when anyone challenges them on their bullshit.
Seems that reality is only convenient.
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