Nathan Symington had his anti-semitism endorsed and reinforced at at least two left-wing forums.
Today I'm not talking about anti-semitism generally in NZ (which is something I've been writing a post on for ages and I think is super important), but about the way the NZ left tolerates and even reinforces the most vile extreme anti-semitism from unabashed nazis (I really don't want to be talking about that - because I don't want it to be true - but given that it is naming that is better than being silent).
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Nathan Symington is facebook friends with Occupy Auckland (Still! Apparently Occupy Auckland isn't that discriminating). Apparently he also attended some Occupy Auckland events.
That, in itself, is horrendous.
What is worse is that his nazi beliefs were reinforced at Occupy, and by the Occupy Auckland facebook feed. Anti-semitic conspiracy theories were repeated at both the Occupy Auckland and Occupy Wellington camps. There was a serious push-back in Wellington (this post is part of that effort). But people had to fight really hard to make clear that anti-semitic conspiracy theories weren't welcome, and they didn't necessarily win.
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Nathan Symington also attended the Aotearoa is not for sale demonstration. This is from his facebook page:
He commented "Nationalism is the key"
I think there is a bigger question here, about the way nationalism is used in anti-asset sales material. Anti-privatisation organisation does not need nationalism. The decision to extensively use nationalism is a conscious one that the people involved in the Aotearoa is not for sale campaign have made. I think it was a mistake (and I hope to make a longer post about that one day - but I probably won't).
I think people who promoted nationalism in the name of oppposing asset sales should think about how easily Nathan Symington fit into the demo. The person who designed that poster probably never asked "what would a nazi think of this?" - but they probably should have. If we're using propaganda that reassures nazis of their pre-existing beliefs, and they're happy to march along - then we're doing something wrong.
There were thousands of people in that march. Which might explain why no-one did anything about the fact that one of them was carrying swastikas. I've been on a march where we only realised at hte end that nazis had marched with us (they werne't carrying swastikas). But not marching with nazis; the idea that we have nothing in common with nazis, should be the most basic, fundamental, universally held belief on the left.
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Ever since I saw Nathan Symington's facebook I have felt totally disgusted and depressed about the New Zealand left. That Symington could have felt any support, or reassurance, or validation from his experiences in the left, when (if) he vadalised hte graves - that should never happened.
But even now, even once he's been arrested, it doesn't stop. Nathan Symington has marked himself as attending this street party against privatisation. Someone brought this up on the Aotearoa is not for sale facebook page, and asked that he wasn't invited. Rather than saying "yes not standing with nazis who probably destroyed graves is a priority for us" - those who were running the Aotearoa is not for sale facebook page deleted the thread who brought it up. Apparently that's how incoherent parts of the left are on anti-semitism - it's a bigger problem to say 'hey lets do something abou the nazis' than for a nazi to attend.
Note: I've edited to clarify that when someone brought this issue up the people running the facebook page deleted it. The people running the Aotearoa is Not For Sale facebook page (and this event) have consistently deleted posts that try and talk about this, and have not given a clear indication of their position.
16 comments:
"Apparently he also attended some Occupy Auckland events.
That, in itself, is horrendous. "
I wonder what steps you think Occupy organisations should take to actively exclude Nazis from attending.
My two cents worth: while feminism venerates a theocracy of state to achieve your means, it will always end in failure: the state, including in our social democracies, is a fascist mechanism, always, because it works via force and coercion.
I've never understood why feminism did not see to free women you have to free the individual, and the political system consistent with that is the classical liberal / libertarian / or even anarchism end of the political spectrum.
The slogan for this site, the radical notion that women are people, denotes the collective, and how it binds you: why not think about the radical notion that women are individuals.
Um, the point of my above post is, I've no confusion at all why state worshiping movements such as Occupy throw up hate in the form of this sick anti-semitism. It all comes from state dependence (in both senses of that word).
" the idea that we have nothing in common with nazis, should be the most basic, fundamental, universally held belief on the left."
But the Nazis are clearly opposing state asset sales - then we DO have something in common with them. Hitler was described as the first Keynes - this gives the left an area of common ground with Nazis, as both support greater intervention in the economy. What your suggesting is factually incorrect - Nazism and the left DO have common ground. Where we differentiate ourselves from Nazis is the reasons for that crossover - we support equality, they base their views in a nationalistic and racist ideology.
"The person who designed that poster probably never asked "what would a nazi think of this?" - but they probably should have"
No, they shouldn't have. We don't live in Europe, and do not have a significant growth in far-right wing neo-Nazi parties. We should appeal to what we believe is correct - if nationalism is a good reason to oppose state assets, then we should tell people. We must stick to our political beliefs. We know that ourselves and the Nazis are radically different - even if there is an overlap in the kinds of economic policies we want. If we find them in our marches - we kick them out. But to change our slogans, or to change the arguments we use to support ourselves in fear of a TINY minority of people in New Zealand is ridiculous.
"If we're using propaganda that reassures nazis of their pre-existing beliefs, and they're happy to march along - then we're doing something wrong."
No, we're not. Our support for certain economic policies (and opposition to asset sales) has nothing to do with ideology - yes there is a degree of nationalism, but our version of it has nothing in common with the view the Nazis have of it. We have COMPLETELY different reasons for rejecting state assets - even if they may be able to read "nationalism" and (incorrectly) believe it has anything to do with their ideology. Again, they should be kicked out of our marches and our social movements, but to change our slogans and arguments for their sake is ridiculous.
This is one of the reasons I don't join in on protests.
Why some people in New Zealand think it's okay to discriminate against certain people, is beyond me.
I go back years ago to an email I received from John Minto, I asked him if he would join in at a protest outside an Invercargill cafe that refused to serve
Israeli's.
He emailed back and said and I quote "I couldnt care less if two Israeli's cant get a cup of coffee"
Why do people in New Zealand, think its okay to discriminate against someone just because they're from a country that polices you dont agree with.
It's not a political protest to refuse to serve someone, it's discrimination.
Pretty sure if a American cafe owner here, refused to serve someone from Iran, Minto and various left wing peace groups would be out protesting, instead of being silent.
So... some nutbar vandalises some graves, and is facebook friends with a nominally left wing group, so the left are Nazis?
Get a grip, this is a case of drawing connections where there are none. Of all my experiences among protest groups, I have found that left wingers tend to be the first to condemn racism, and yes I include anti-semitism in that.
Alex: So why didnt left wing groups speak up against what the two Israeli tourists went through?
Why dont they speak up against the vile racist language of TeMana's leader?
They are silent.
Occupy confronts the slime.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29136804@N00/6408941667
***Nathan Symington is facebook friends with Occupy Auckland (Still! Apparently Occupy Auckland isn’t that discriminating). Apparently he also attended some Occupy Auckland events.
That, in itself, is horrendous.***
There were probably Marxists and Communists attending too – does Maia at the Hand Mirror know how many people have been murdered as a result of those ideologies?
***we support equality, they base their views in a nationalistic and racist ideology.***
So does the Dalai Lama - not everything is black and white.
My guess would be that Symington remained Facebook friends with occupy Auckland because their page is poorly moderated and seldom checked, and because they didn't know when they approved him that he was a Nazi and didn't later notice he was on their list. That arguably makes Occupy Auckland guilty of slack administrative procedures, but hardly a group that "tolerates and even reinforces the most vile extreme anti-semitism from unabashed nazis." I could be wrong, but I'd like to see evidence that this wasn't just poor administration before passing judgement.
A couple of years ago a swastika-adorned skin attended a demo I was at in Wellington - I challenged him and told him to leave and was immediately pulled aside by some idiot who told me to leave him alone. But I don't think the latter idiot was supporting fascism or anti-semitism, just practicing the normal New Zealand cultural trait of opposing confrontation, no matter how justifiable.
With an organisation as open and all over the place as Occupy, it was obvious that nutters, fruit loops and a few nasty people would turn up. But the problem is the vagueness of the New Zealand left, and the curent fashion for 'inclusiveness' not that the left endorses fascism and anti-semitism.
"So why didnt left wing groups speak up against what the two Israeli tourists went through?"
Probably because, given the many thousands of incidents of human rights abuse and discrimination that go on in the world every year, this ranks as pretty minor. Speaking out on every instance of discrimination is simply impossible.
"Why dont they speak up against the vile racist language of TeMana's leader?"
I think you mean Mana (Te Mana is a frigate), if so, it's because when I hear him speak, he doesn't use racist language. I think you are imagining things, or believing nonsense you are told.
Cheers
Sam Buchanan
Sam:
Seriously??? This was minor?
That's pretty gutless if you ask me.
Like I said if this was an American cafe owner that refused to serve someone from Iran, all hell would've broken loose and there is no way, that it would've been called a MINOR incident.
This was discrimination at it's worst, happening here in New Zealand!!!, no matter what is happening overseas, to brush it off, shows the hypocritical nature of theses so called left wing groups.
I lost so much respect for so many people over that incident.
In terms of Te Mana
I think calling people "white mother F", could be regard as racist language.
"Seriously??? This was minor?
That's pretty gutless if you ask me."
You read a newspaper lately? I'm concerned with Rohingya being killed or burned out of their homes in Burma, suicide bombings in Iraq, attacks on Sufis and Christians in Mali, continuing war in Somalia. Yes, a few people being refused service in one cafe is a minor issue. Even in New Zealand terms this is pretty minor. I suspect you have little understanding of the levels of racism people face here if you think this is "discrimination at it's worst". And, by the way, there was a major media reaction to this incident, what impact do you think a few small left-wing groups adding their voices to the chorus would have been?
"white mother F"
He referred to those who stole Maori land as "white motherfuckers". I think I'd agree. Not particularly good choice of words though (actually he was repeating the words of the person he was replying to). If that is the only vaguely racist thing he's said, again, it's a pretty minor issue.
Cheers
Sam
Sam:
It was a huge deal, because it was happening right here in New Zealand.
This is NEW ZEALAND, we do not DISCRIMINATE!!
I was so ashamed of my country that day.
Rick Hillman
Time to act like a little bird; Flutter wings and receive a wee drop of rescue remedy from Nanny. Not too much now mind - that would be too Kiwi for you at this stage.
If that is horrendous in your world then you are truly a flat-earther
"This is NEW ZEALAND, we do not DISCRIMINATE!!" Yeah, right.
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