It quotes Zerlina Maxwell, a rape survivor, who appeared on a Fox
News segment to discuss the idiotic notion that "the solution to rape is simple - just give women guns". Maxwell said this:
“I think that the entire conversation is wrong. I don’t want anybody to be
telling women anything. I don’t want men to be telling me what to wear and how
to act, not to drink. And I don’t, honestly, want you to tell me that I needed a
gun in order to prevent my rape. … I think we should be telling men not to rape
women and start the conversation there with prevention.”
Well ... yes.
The article goes on to describe a rape-prevention class which college freshmen were required to take, and which appeared to be successful in changing their attitudes and behaviour (though of course it's very hard to prove that educating a particular group of men actually prevented them raping someone).
15 comments:
Fine.....Men....stop raping.
Issue solved....
But on planet reality I would say....Men...stop raping...and Women....apply some thought to what you are doing and stop making it so damn easy for them to do so....
Sorry if that wreaks your concrete bound world view....carry on...
Wow anon way to perpetuate victim blaming attitudes.
My first reaction, as a male, is to baulk at the term "teach men not to rape" as it implies that men have some innate desire to rape and we have to have it taught out of us. Get over that initial reaction, however, and I can fully get behind the idea of teaching people (intentionally gender non-specific) about consent, empathy with rape victims and how a bystander can intervene, either in an actual situation or just challenging poor attitudes from others.
Not at all surprised though that many men stop at that initial reaction and get pissed off, so the wording could certainly be better to stop that.
I'm going to also pretend that first comment doesn't exist - it's just not worth going there...
Also, something interesting I stumbled across when looking up what else has been written on this: http://just-smith.tumblr.com/post/9174043647/how-teaching-men-not-to-rape-teaches-men-to-rape
@Chunda: Yes, we must change the wording of our anger so that the poor ickle rapists don't get upset.
*Vomits*
Ahem. We should teach women not to rape too (a small percentage, but just as important).
Quote link above:
"When interviewed, most rapists said that they were encouraged to rape because they thought that other men did it.
When we unfairly target men over rape, this is exactly what we are teaching them.
It also invokes all of the difficulties mentioned above. What the good people of Racistville should be doing is working out why black people are more likely to commit crimes. Why are men more likely to rape? Is it because they are inherently stupid or immoral? As a conscientious and intelligent man, I find even the suggestion offensive - let alone a ‘solution’ which bases itself on that premise.
No. Let’s have some equality. Let’s realise that men are exposed to a dangerous rape culture from an early age. Let’s realise that we are also experiencing the rise of a ‘slut culture’, where we are taught to fight for sex - degraded to nothing more than a commercialised product - over any other considerations (pregnancy, STDs, hurt feelings… consent). Let’s realise that men have this especially bad, and women are in fact privileged (yes, that’s what I said) not to face these influences.
Thanks for the link Chunda! It's one of the worst.
re ChundaMars' link - don't forget this zinger: "In a world without the sexism of the patriarchy, men and women would rape equally. With the current culture, men are much more likely to be driven to this end than women are. So not only is this evidence of male suffering under this institutional sexism, it is a cold hard case against only teaching men not to rape."
@ anoyn - you need a pseudonym, the blog authors will probably delete your comment.
I think your premise is correct but argued wrong.
Look at it this way, we want to teach people not to burgle houses, and thats great and we should definitley do that. And when they do steal they are definitley in the wrong, and the victims are definitley victims, regardless of the situation.
HOWEVER, people can take real world sensible preventative action to reduce the risk of getting burgled, such as always locking your house, installing monitored alarms etc...
Women can take real life preventative action to help reduce the risk of rape. I don't think educating this is a bad idea, any method that works is a good one.
-comfrick-
Comfrick you are almost correct, I'll emphasise corrections:
"Look at it this way, we want to teach people not to burgle houses, and thats great and we should definitley [sic] do that. And when they do steal they are definitley in the wrong, and the victims are definitley victims, regardless of the situation.
HOWEVER, people can take real world sensible preventative action to reduce the risk of getting burgled, such as always locking your house, installing monitored alarms etc...
Women can [NOT] take real life preventative action to help reduce the risk of rape [as rape can happen at any time, anywhere, most commonly within the domestic sphere]. "
@gen_nz
There ARE things that women can do that WILl reduce the RISK of rape happening.
Just because rape can happen at any time, anywhere, and most commonly within the domestic sphere dosnt change the fact that any action that reduces the risk, reduces the risk.
If one less person gets raped, its worth it.
-comfrick-
Wow look at all the doodz clogging up this thread with all their great ideas about rape.
Doodz, let me help you out here
It is NOT the responsibility of women to prevent rape.
Now why don't you all go off and read feminism 101 rather than derail this thread with your demandws that women educate you?
ChundaMars, I think you are mistaken.
Here's an analogy I've used before. Imagine, in the supermarket, you were to see someone -- an adult -- sitting on the floor by the bulk bins, scoffing chocolate by the handful. What do you think of this person and their behaviour? I like to think I'm not judgemental, but I think I'd jump pretty smartly to the conclusion that they had a serious mental disability. Yet -- isn't this "natural" behaviour? Humans have an innate desire for sweet and oily food, born of millions of generations of fruit- and nut-eating primate ancestors. What this person is missing is not something innate but something learned; something we all learn, routinely and without difficulty, by the age of five. We learn this from our immersion in a culture of respecting other people's property. In principle, I don't see why rape shouldn't become equally unthinkable, if only we were all immersed (as many of us already are) in a culture of respecting other people's bodies.
so, regarding 'risk': the only person who can reduce the 'risk' of rape, is the potential rapist, as this person is usually the only person who knows they are intending to rape. Would you stop people running in marathons to reduce the risk of being harmed by a bomb? Would you suggest people don't drive to reduce the risk of being hit by a drunk driver? We can usefully learn to fight off an attack but we can't prevent an attack by changing individual behaviour. If I were to successfully prevent myself from being raped by never leaving the house, has the rapist stopped? Has the rapist given up and gone home? No, the bastard has just moved to an easier target. I haven't prevented a rape, I have just moved a rape along to someone else. We need to change the culture of rape, and it needs to start with educating men about love, empathy, consent and rape. If all you men commenting on here have got the hang of these messages, maybe your energy could usefully be put into educating other men, rather than waxing lyrical on a feminist blog.
@Rebecca: I agree - I think most people who propose that women take steps to protect themselves are imagining the stranger rapist lurking in the dark alley, as opposed to the much more common rapist who knows their victim and rapes in more familiar circumstances. Quite what they expect women to do in those cases (Not have male acquaintances? Avoid spending time with male relatives?) I don't know. And any sensible advice given to women to avoid the stranger rapist (don't walk alone down dark alleys at night?) equally apply to ANYONE (male or female) in order to keep themselves safe from any sort of assault anyway.
I agree about changing the culture of rape, but I think it starts long before adulthood and teaching men - we need to change the way we teach our children (male and female) about relationships. We need to stop teaching girls that they should attract and resist, while boys pursue and persist (to borrow Warren Farrell's words).
Hey Chunda, I agree about educating our children differently. And it is really important that as adults we actively consider our own beliefs and behaviours because when we are parents or teachers we have to teach our children something different from what we learnt as kids, and it can be difficult to find the words when we are making it up as we go along!
I guess also that other adults are going to need to learn a different way of being, in order to change things for their children.
And I'm concerned that there aren't enough men out there teaching men (tho I know some good ones) and, after all, it is mostly men perpetuating this violence.
There needs to be a lot of work behind the words for this to change, and we then have to consider that at least part of the reason men are not (often) doing this work is because of the way the labour is structured. A different discussion, but...
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